Published September 19, 2012 - 8:33pm
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The Freedom From Religion Foundation recently sent a cease-and-desist letter to the University of Tennessee asking the school to discontinue the tradition of a pregame prayer at Neyland Stadium.
“This is a public university, not a Christian club. It’s open to all comers and should be welcoming,” said Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the foundation and author of the letter sent to Chancellor Jimmy Cheek. “When you’re not religious or are of another faith and you get prayed at during events, it’s really very grating. It’s a sock in the gut for you to go for a sporting event and then be told to conform to someone else’s religion.”
Officials defended the prayer saying it does not violate the United States Constitution and earlier this week, the University sent an official response:
Dear Ms. Gaylor:
This letter is in response to your letter dated September 13, 2012 concerning prayer at University of Tennessee, Knoxville events, including football games. After conferring with the University’s legal counsel, my understanding is that the decision of the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals in Chaudhuri v. State of Tennessee, which as you note is binding in Tennessee, specifically held that nonsectarian prayer at public university events does not violate the First Amendment.
I appreciate your conern about this issue, and I want to assure you that I have given this issue careful consideration. At this time, however, the University will continue to allow prayers before University events consistent with the Chaudhuri case.
Recently, UT-Chattanooga replaced their pregame prayer with a moment of silence.
I might be going out on a limb here, but I would suspect that most UT fans are more concerned about the Vols finding a run game to support Tyler Bray’s passing game.
It also isn’t an anti-religion club. They have the right to pray before the game. They don’t have the right to force someone to pray before the game and they aren’t trying to.
UT doesn’t have the right to make non-christians listen to the prayer over the loudspeaker because it means STATE school is endorsing a religion. That’s what the US Supreme Court has said. You are wrong.
Endorsing a religion? I don’t see how somebody praying before a game is endorsing a religion? Should they include “And for all the athiest, Hope that chance falls your way” Sounds like everything’s in good spirit, just some easily offended nutjobs trying to start an argument about something that’s really “nothing” in their eyes anyways.
Neyland Stadium is owned by the State of Tennessee and managed by the University of Tennessee. Making that public property. Legal precedent states that a single religious prayer of activity cannot be lead by entities of the state. When they invite a member of the clergy from one Christian church to lead a Christian prayer over the PA system, that is the state endorsing Christian religion.
Separation of church and state doesn’t mean you have to eradicate any form of religion from places where government meets or has influence. That would be simply replacing one religion with another (that of atheism). Separation of church and state is meant to prevent the state from having an official religion whereby it is illegal to be a part of a different religion. Another example of a few individuals having too much time on their hands.
“Separation of church and state is meant to prevent the state from having an official religion whereby it is illegal to be a part of a different religion” UT is a state school that forces non-christians to listen to a christian prayer. UT therefore endorses the christian religion. The US supreme court has held that school led prayer at football games is unconsitutional because of this. Your 1st amendment analysis is wrong.
UT is a state school that sells a ticket to consumers looking to see a game. By purchasing that ticket, do you not waive your right to complain about what goes on during that game? I mean, I don’t agree with the drunk guy behind me cussing at my team, but that does not mean the University endorses that kind of behavior because it goes on. Maybe I am wrong in this thinking, but it seems like volunteering to purchase a ticket makes you subject to whatever goes on inside the stadium.
Then by your logic, if you purchase a ticket it is perfectly legal for them to chop off your hands if you root for Alabama? No, they can’t because it is against the law.
we have freedom of religion so everyone has the right to practice their religion or no religion so if you dont want to pray at the beginning of the game you dont have to. get on your phone and facebook or get on twitter or just have patience for a minute. its like taking out the line one nation under god out of the school system, so we dont put down other religions when by doing that we are putting down God. I am all for freedom of religion but to this freedom for religion group, let us exercise our freedom of religion. thank you
freedom from religion**
where does it say freedom from religion in the Constitution? Nowhere. Heck, even seperation of church and state isn’t in the Constitution (it’s in one of Jefferson’s letters)
I am generally against anything and everything that UT does, hell I won’t even eat an orange because of it. BUT, on this particular decision, I give them 2 big thumbs up!
Why does that group feel like it is up to them to make decisions for the team anyway? Are they a government organization? A democratic one?
No they are making TN follow the law.
No, UT is breaking the law. Unlike Christians and their bible, American Citizens cannot pick and choose what aspects of the law they follow…
This is asinine. Everyone has freedom of religion and if people want prayer before a game, why take that away from them? The government has taken prayer out of school as it is and other events because “we don’t want to step on anyone’s toes and offend them”. Boo-freaking-hoo. I’m an LSU fan, but I support UT on this issue too.
So if a Jewish lesbian who doesn’t believe in Jesus wanted to pray before a game that would be okay with you, right?
Oh I’m sorry, I thought this was AMERICA
Yes, and we are governed by the rule of law. It is the LAW that states that public entities cannot lead a religious service.
UT is right, and the radical whacko leftists are wrong. If you don’t like America, I’m sure I can find many who will gladly help you pack.
You need to remember that the US was founded on the rule of law and is not a Christian Nation.
No, America was founded on Christianity. Maybe if you would study the history of America you would realize that.
You are incorrect. How many times is the word God or Creator mentioned in the US Constitution? I’ll give you a hint: NONE.
The first people that came here did so in order to make money. After that settlers came her so that they could be free from their country forcing a religion upon them. (Where have I heard that before?) It has been in the recent decades that the Church has encroached on government and teaching people that this nation was founded to be a Christian Nation. In fact the Treaty of Tripoli, approved by the US Senate in 1797, states that the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion. Many of the founders were Deists, not Christians.
That lefty commy Annie Laurie Gaylor who wants to get rid of prayer probably couldn’t tell you what day of the week Tennessee plays football on. Keep the communists out of SEC football!
If you don’t like the fact that they pray at the games, show up later then everyone else. You do not need to be in your sets a hour before the game to see everything if you don’t like the fact that they pray, try not to ruin it for others.
So it’s be okay for a unitarian or a jewish lesbian to lead the prayer, right? What about a catholic priest? What about a seventh day adventist? A Jehovah’s witness? Everything is fine until someone’s prayer goes against your religion.
technically, there can’t be anything such as a Jewish lesbian……… so that part isn’t possible….. As far as I care, if they’re only praying for, say, safety, I don’t care.
All we can do is pray that God will change their hardened hearts.
All we can do is pray that Allah will change your hardened heart.
Or thor or Zeus or any other God. See how silly that sounds?
I’m all for freedom of religion and allowing everyone to practice their own beliefs. However, if I give you the right to worship your god, give me the right to worship my God.
How is forcing me to listen to your prayer taking away your right to worship?
You have the right to do whatever you want during the prayer (you can sing, yell, or whatever you want to do). The prayer was probably being said at the games before you were born, and your decision to completely stop it doesn’t infringe on my freedom OF religion? Thanks for trying to force your beliefs on others. If it was a prayer of another religion I would silently say my own, and not raise a fuss about it.
You are wrong here. They had slaves before you were born too but does that make it legal or right? Hell, your bible condones slavery. Does that make it right? The LAW states that public entities cannot lead a religious ceremony. By the University of Tennessee and Neyland Stadium inviting a member of the clergy to pray a Christian prayer over the PA is forcing everyone in the stadium to participate or to be identified as a person that “does not believe”. In society that is wrong. Identification is the first step towards ostracizing.
In other words this Freedom From Religion Foundation is saying that Christians should conform to what they say, and stop praying? They’re contradicting themselves.
Christians can pray anywhere they want. You just can’t force other people to listen to it. Can’t you see the difference?
Hmmmm, you said “You can’t force other people to listen to it.” However, you are wanting everybody to listen to your statements. It sound like you wanting everyone to be tolerant while you yourself are being intolerant. That is an illogical worldview.
Your logic fails.
The US constitution, as interpreted by the US SUPREME COURT bans prayer before public school football games.
http://articles.cnn.com/2000-06-19/justice/scotus.schoolprayer.01_1_student-led-prayer-prayer-matter-public-prayer?_s=PM:LAW
UT is breaking the law and they know it. It doesn’t matter what the TN supreme court says. It’s a Christian prayer. Would a Muslim prayer be okay? What about a prayer by a lesbian? What about a Catholic priest giving the prayer? What about a prayer from a preacher who believes in evolution? One that doesn’t believe in hell? Do you really want to mix your religion with your state school? It’s only okay when you agree with it. TN should stop the prayer. They are going to lose when it goes to court.
More intolerance in the name of tolerance.
How is following the law intolerant? Your logic amazes me.
I just want to know why Gilgamesh doesn’t think a lesbian would be allowed to pray. Or anyone elae for that matter. And no, UT is not breaking the law. No one is forced to listen to the prayer. No one even has to have the common decency to be quiet. No one is forced to do anything. Christians are the tolerant people here. The freedom from religion group is the one forcing the religion, belief, practice or what ever you want to call it on others. Major support for UT from Arkansas.
Gilgameah…sorry. don’t want to offend you with autocorrect.
i guess we should also ban the constitution from being read as well…because God is a meaningful part of our constitution…instead of worrying bout who prays and doesnt, maybe this group ( whom is a religious group against religion) should go live somewhere besides the Good Ol USA…Go Vols…and God Bless Tennessee!
Guess how many times God or Creator is mentioned in the US Constitution. Try ZERO. You probably need to go read the Constitution again…
This letter from Ms. Gaylor is so illogical and contradicting, it is actually funny. First, she said “open to all comers and should be welcoming”, except when you are praying before football games, then it should not be open to all comers and you are not welcomed. The she said “When you’re not religious or are of another faith and you get prayed at during events, it’s really very grating.” However, she is not concerned about the ones that are religious or are of another faith. She doesn’t mind if they are feel grated upon. Finally, she said “then be told to conform to someone else’s religion.” But, she wants everyone to conform to her religion of not having religious prayer. Very inconsistent.
Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color. By following the law and not allowing an act of a single religion to be led by a state entity is not forcing anyone to be Atheist, Non-Theist, Agnostic, or whatever. Your logic is like saying taking away Coca-Cola from a restaurant is making the people that go there like Pepsi. You are making a illogical leap.
no. The doctrine of non-doctrination….is still a doctrine. theres no getting around that. i respect agnostics, because thats what most self -proclaimed atheists are at heart anyway. If you dont belong to a certain faith, thats fine. you dont have to. but just because you dont know if theres a God or not doesnt mean other people have to be held victim to your ideas about the existence of God. Thats not even humanistic. thats just ignorance
Atheism is the belief that there is no god. It is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief. The statement “Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color” lacks real substance. Atheists make such claims so they can avoid legal imperatives and they can avoid some of the ideological hang-ups people have about “religion”. Atheists often claim that their belief is not a religion. This allows them to propagate their beliefs in settings where other religions are banned. Other than the denial of God, there is little difference between Atheism and other worldviews typically labelled as religions. Atheism is a non-theistic religion while Christianity is a theistic religion.
as a freshman at UT, i was surprised when they opened with a prayer. I personally dont care if they pray or not, but leading a prayer at a public institution is walking a thin line.
Actually it is against the law.
It’s freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion. If you’re offended by prayer, don’t listen to it.
amen. idk why people cant stand to hear prayer. as if it has anything to do with them.
If you are going to spout separation of church and state then, let there be separation of state and church, Get all the preachers out of government. That idea is about as stupid as trying to stop the majority of Americans from having their choice.
this si stupid. freedom from religion is dumb. you know why? the doctrine of non-doctrination…is still a doctrine. so its still a worldview or religion or whatever you want to call it. And nobody HAS to pray witht hem. if you dont want to, dont. if it bugs you that much to hear a prayer, how about get over yourself, because other people praying is not a condemnation against you for not doing so. i swear, you guys claim to be trying to view the world more open-mindedly yet youre reasoning just gets more and more narrow-minded. may God bless you and keep you and show you light.
I’ll let the Supreme Court argue on my behalf here…
In McCreary County v. ACLU, the Supreme Court wrote:
The touchstone for our analysis is the principle that the First Amendment mandates governmental neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion. When the government acts with the ostensible and predominant purpose of advancing religion, it violates that central Establishment Clause value of official
religious neutrality, there being no neutrality when the government’s ostensible object is to take sides.
Also, In Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, a case involving prayer at public high school football games, the Supreme Court wrote:
School sponsorship of a religious message is impermissible because it sends the ancillary message to members of the audience who are nonadherents “that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.”
In Lee v. Weisman the Supreme Court wrote:
What to most believers may seem nothing more than a reasonable request that the nonbeliever respect their religious practices, in a school context may appear to the nonbeliever or dissenter to be an attempt to employ the machinery of the State to enforce a religious orthodoxy.
Do you not see the legal precedent that has been set forth? It is against the law for the Christian prayer to continue. There is no legal standing for prayer to continue at any public function.
I tell ya what “superstar”… let’s set aside all logic, and forget all the stuff you read 10 minutes before you replied to someone’s post. At least that what it looks like to me. Because you seem to be saying the same thing over and over and over and over. No matter how many times you, or people like you try to keep people like us from doing what we believe in, you will ALWAYS be in the minority. Our beliefs won’t be shaken, no matter how many cases you copy and paste into your replies. You keep saying “it’s against the law”.. well, do you see anyone getting arrested at these games? There are law enforcement officials present. I’m sure there are a few judges there as well. Stand amongst the 100,000+ at Neyland Stadium and look around when a prayer is being spoken. Count how many people aren’t bowing their heads with hats removed. Then listen when the prayer is over at how many people say “AMEN”. I have been there. You won’t be counting long for you are WELL inside what is called “The Bible Belt”. You have exercised your first amendment right to say what you wanted to say, albeit falling on deaf ears, mind you. But nevertheless, I shall exercise mine as well by saying… and I’m sure I speak for the majority here, as is evident by by a HUGE amount of posts, if you don’t like it, and feel like it’s something you want to complain about to someone who can’t do anything about it, buy earmuffs, hum, whistle dixie, close your eyes and meditate or stick your fingers in your ears. Doesn’t bother me either way. We Christians are a peaceful people. We don’t force you to believe what we believe. Never have, never will. But we won’t stand idly by while a group of non-believers tries to tell us where we can and can’t pray.
It does not matter if the majority of people want to do something, if it is against the law, it is against the law. People are not getting arrested because it is not the jurisdiction of local law enforcement to arrest people. Are you that dense? Did you READ the opinions by the SC? I keep saying the same things over and over because so many of you are not reading what I am saying. I don’t care if all 102,455 people in the stadium are 100% bible thumping Christians. It is against federal law for public institutions to be leading an act of worship on public grounds. Each and every one of those 102,455 are free to pray whenever and wherever they want, even in the stadium. It just cannot be organized, led or sanctioned by the state entity, here the University of Tennessee
They are proably more that want to hear it ,than those that don’t.If you don’t plug your ears.It seems that no one,and I mean NO ONE!!!!! is trying to make someone hear it,it’s those that are trying to stop it that is making the noise.In 2009 I spent 14 days on a ventilator and on deaths bed.If not for the grace of GOD and many prayers,I wouldn’t be typing this today.Maybe,just maybe those that don’t want to listen are a little afraid what they may find out about themselves.Let those who want to pray,pray,.Those who don’t ,not to worry,someone will be praying for you!!!!!!!
This is just now becoming an issue? Sounds like someone is just trying to start a fire where there has never been one. Is it really inconveniencing people that much? Is it really hurting people to allow a 30 second prayer? Or are we just so concerned with not offending anyone that we want to eliminate traditions that have been taking place for decades? It doesn’t hurt me when I see a gay pride parade. Sure, I get a little uncomfortable, but I’d rather not judge someone for that, as it’s not my place. People are making mountains out of mole hills these days. I could understand it if the clergyman prayed for the unsaved/non-believers or was being judgmental in some way…a football game is not the time or place for that. But if it’s just praying for player safety and a good game, I see no harm in it. Heck, atheists don’t believe that prayer works anyway, so what’s the big deal? If it’s that harmful for you to hear a short prayer that isn’t directed at you, stay home and watch the game on TV, or listen to it on the radio. There come’s a point when people need to realize that they might be offending the ones who have already been a part of a tradition such as this for as long as they have. And when they come to try to change that, it’s not going to sit well. I for one don’t care if they keep the prayer or discard it. But what I don’t understand is how this could be such a big deal. No one is literally FORCING people to bow their heads, close their eyes, and pray. You know what I do when I hear something I don’t want to? I ignore it because it’s insignificant to me.
They are not forcing the people to pray. People have a decision wither to participate. I know that many colleges pray before a game how many football fans over the years have gotten upset about that. Its not like other religions are just now starting to watch football games. I think that over the years of UT football at least a few atheists have visited games.
Not a Vol Fan but, that being said I am behind them in their decision about prayer. If you are offended take this time to go to the restroom or concession stand or watch at home on your TV…… If I go to a movie and I don’t like it I just leave, I don’t call my Lawyer!!!!
Y’all in “Rocky Not” need to pray. Pray that Bama stops kicking your ass on Oct. 20, 2012. But when you hear the song……Hey Vols, We just beat the Hell out of you. Rammer Jammer, Yellow Hammer, Give ‘em Hell, ALABAMA………. It will be to late.
Look over the wall of Neyland at the Tn. River. Be afraid cause the river will flow backwards and be deep Crimson in color, and that wave…….ROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL TIDE, ROLL!!!
You know the question is WHY? Why do someone feel the need to tackle this issue. Some groups have already taking prayer out of school, taken the “Pledge of Allegiance” out, and are complaining about “In God We Trust” on money. I think some of us need to re-educate one of the foundations of why the pilgrims came to the “New World”. We as Americans have the right to believe what we want. I am discouraged how small groups can step in and implement the changes against the wills of others. The argument I see on here is that this is a “State” owned and operated format. Well, do the right thing and put it to vote and then the answer will be very clear.
I’m an atheist, but I don’t agree with trying to eradicate the pregame prayer. Fact is, most of the fans and players are Christian. Hearing people pray doesn’t cause brain hemorrhages in atheists. Hearing people pray just elicits pity and incredulousness in me ;)
What is it with these fanatical zealots? I hope they are monitored as unamerican! We as Americans give them freedom to exercise thier beliefs or non beliefs! Why can’t they take thier small minority of KOOLAIDE JUNKIES back in thier “compound” or PLEASE take some action and grow some nads and do something besine cower and tweet msgs!!
This is the type of subject which brings all conference teams VERY CLOSE!!
I’m much more concerned about whether or not Tennessee can perform on the field.