arcboundworker

Recent Comments
mtwhite, that's not true. A backward pass is distinct from a fumble in the rules of the game. Go look at the definition of a fumble (2-11-1). It says that a pass is not a fumble. Then look at the definition of a pass (2-19-1). A thrown ball is a pass. It retains it's status as a pass even after it hits the ground. There is nothing in the definition of fumble (again, 2-11-1) that references hitting the ground.
Why cant you have it both ways? The definition of a fumble has nothing to do with it being on the ground. You're thinking of a "loose ball." By definition, for it to a fumble, it has to leave Henry's possession without being a pass, kick, or successful handoff. It was a pass. Therefore it is not a fumble. By rule, a backward pass can't be incomplete. Incomplete pass is only a status that a forward pass can have. This may be confusing if you've never opened the rulebook, sure, but it is pretty straightforward once you have cracked it open.
If the rule should be changed, the easiest way to do it is to just say "fumble or backward pass" in the 4th down exception. Redefining a backward pass that hits the ground as a fumble will just cause a lot of headaches in a document as technically written as the NCAA Football Rule book. I would like it to stay in because that play was a lot of fun, but I won't begrudge anyone who thinks that type of play should be removed.
No. Absolutely not. The tackle did not cause the ball to become loose. The pass did. You're grasping at straws now.
Correct. 7-2-2-a-2 explicitly only applies to fourth downs.
No. For one, there is no such thing as a lateral in the NCAA football rulebook. For two, they would have been credited with a fumble recovery. But how statistics are recorded is governed by a different rule book than the playing rules. A bunch of things were lumped in with fumble for the sake of simplicity in keeping up with plays. Like how if a play ends at the 25.5 yard line, the stat keepers will round it to either the 25 or 26 rather than keep it at 25.5. Or to bring up baseball, whether a play is scored as a hit or an error or a fielders choice has no effect on the play on the field. In the rule book, this was a backward pass, not a fumble, which means it was legal to advance.
That's a pretty generous reading of 2-11-1. How did Henry lose player possession of the ball? He didn't lose player possession because of the tackle. He lost player possession because he threw the ball. 2-19-1 "Passing the ball is throwing it."
Yeah, this. Fumble and backward pass are similar in that they are bot loose balls (2-2-3), but they are still distinct things with their own properties. Fumbles can't be advanced on 4th down, Backward passes can.
Won't let me reply direct underneat SEC-ond to none, but to answer "Then why are tosses and backwards passes counted as fumbles on the stat sheets?" It's because in the Statistics Manual, for sake of simplicity in not having categories like "recovered backward pass", they lumped it in with fumble. The Statistics Manual is not the rule book, though. It's comments have no bearings on how the game is played, just recorded.
No, it does not make it a fumble. Definition of a fumble: "To fumble the ball is to lose player possession by any act other than passing, kicking or successful handing." Nothing about hitting the ground. And this ball WAS passed by Hunter Henry ("Passing the ball is throwing it"). Since it was a pass, it can't be a fumble. When it hits the ground, it becomes a Loose Ball, but it retains it's status as a backwards pass.
What you quoted, while nice, doesn't pertain here. The issue wasn't "Was it a forwards or backwards pass?", it is "Was this a fumble or an incomplete pass?" IMO, this would have been a fumble in the NFL since they got rid of the tuck rule and it looks that he is pulling the ball down rather than starting to throw, but I'm not sure about NCAA