Debates Down South: Who is the G.O.A.T. of SEC quarterbacks?
Let me stop you right there.
You came here with an answer to that aforementioned question. You want to see if I agree about who the best SEC quarterback ever is. I get that.
The title of “G.O.A.T. of SEC quarterbacks” has seemingly been all over the place for the past decade or so. If we’re being honest, the development of the quarterback position demands that we take a close look at this question every few years. As we’ll break down today, our understanding of the position is ever-changing. The decade opened and closed with arguably the best single-year performances we’ve ever seen, not just in the SEC but in college football history.
That’s my way of saying, yes, Cam Newton and Joe Burrow are in this conversation. Their peaks were higher than any quarterback in this conversation today.
But the goal is not to find the quarterback who had the best peak. This isn’t about how they performed in the NFL, either. It’s not just who had the best record as a starter or who threw the most touchdown passes. This is about who played the position better than anyone while they were in the SEC.
Are we clear? OK, let’s dig into it.
Why was/is this a debate?
People love quarterbacks. Duh.
If Herschel Walker vs. Bo Jackson is SEC debate No. 1, the G.O.A.T. of SEC quarterbacks is 1A. It’s far from unanimous, thanks in part because of the past dozen years. Every few years, it seems like we add a new wrinkle to this discussion. First, it was Tim Tebow. Then it was Cam Newton. Of course there was Johnny Manziel. Who could exclude Tua Tagovailoa. And obviously, 2019 put Joe Burrow firmly into that conversation.
You could make a case for all of them that they deserve to be called “G.O.A.T. of SEC quarterbacks.” At one point or another, you’ve probably seen 1 of these 12 SEC quarterbacks owning that title (in chronological order):
- Joe Namath, Alabama
- Steve Spurrier, Florida
- Archie Manning, Ole Miss
- Pat Sullivan, Auburn
- Danny Wuerffel, Florida
- Peyton Manning, Tennessee
- Tim Tebow, Florida
- Cam Newton, Auburn
- Aaron Murray, Georgia
- Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
- Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama
- Joe Burrow, LSU
Did I miss anybody? Probably, depending on who you ask.
(For totally different reasons, some might argue that Tim Couch and A.J. McCarron should be in that group. As great as they were, you’ll see throughout this why their résumés didn’t quite compare.)
Let’s call that group “The Dirty Dozen.” Real original, right?
On second thought, I can’t include Namath, Spurrier, Manning or Sullivan in an in-depth debate about the No. 1 SEC quarterback ever. Recency bias? Do I hate old people? No and no. This is partially based on my belief that we as human beings do just about everything better now than we did 50 years ago. Quarterbacks are asked to do more. Offenses are more complex. The addition of this thing called “weight-lifting” changed how the game was played (there’s also another obvious reason that I’ll get to later).
Just so you think I’m not discriminating against before-my-era quarterbacks (I still watched them all on YouTube), here’s a reminder of why each of these QBs, while great in their time, can’t be considered No. 1:
- Namath: Threw double-digit TD passes in a season once
- Archie Manning: Was a career passer with a 31-40 TD-INT ratio
- Spurrier: Best season was 16 touchdowns in 10 games
- Sullivan: Won Heisman w/ QB rating of 127.8 and 66 total rushing yards
See what I’m saying? This goes into my Terry Bradshaw thing. That is, if you go back and look at quarterback numbers from a half-century ago, you’ll refresh the football reference page 4 times to make sure you’re on the right player. Trust me. You’ll say to yourself, “Wait a minute. Terry Bradshaw completed 48% of his passes for 6.1 yards per attempt and he threw 81 interceptions in his first 5 years in the NFL?!” He would’ve been a bust and out of the league had he come along 20 years later because we started holding quarterbacks to a higher standard.
Again, I get why Namath, Manning, Spurrier and Sullivan were decorated at the time. Namath, Spurrier and Sullivan won a ton of games while Manning ran in a way that we weren’t used to seeing quarterbacks move. They lifted their respective programs to new heights and should always be remembered for that.
Just don’t try to convince me that they were the best quarterback in SEC history with such noticeable demerits.
Scratch “The Dirty Dozen.” Let’s go with the original name “Elite 8.”
This argument isn’t all about stats. Stats need context. It’s part of it, though not all of it.
There’s something else we need to get out there. I usually hate when the characteristic described about a quarterback is “he’s just a winner.” There are so many other factors to consider when evaluating the quarterback position. A guy who needs to score 45 points a game to win might have a tougher time winning than the guy who can probably rest easy knowing his defense can take care of the rest once that 20-point mark is hit.
Having said that … if someone is going to be worthy of being dubbed the G.O.A.T. of SEC quarterbacks, they have to have won the SEC at least once. You know what that means. Sorry, Murray. Sorry, Manziel. As great as they were, I can’t declare a non-SEC champ the best quarterback in conference history.
Hear me out.
I’m by no means dismissing Manziel as one of the top few best players we’ve ever seen at the position. If you want him as your SEC quarterback of the 2010s, I have no problem with that. He made plays that were out of this world. In fact, if this were a true ranking, I’d have a hard time not putting him in my top 4 or 5, but this is all about who deserves to be No. 1. Other quarterbacks have better arguments to be made.
So instead of the cliché “Elite 8,” let’s call this group the equally cliché “Super 6.” That group is Wuerffel, Peyton Manning, Tebow, Newton, Tua Tagovailoa and Joe Burrow. All of them check 3 important boxes:
- Won at least 1 SEC title
- Finished top 2 in Heisman (both runners-up had a strong case to win the award)
- Had 40-plus combined touchdowns in a season (including bowl games)
That’s the right balance of team and individual success. That’s what quarterbacks are judged on in a typical sense, so fittingly, that’s how they should be judged in the G.O.A.T. discussion.
Got it? Good.
What people said at the time
This debate gained more relevance after the season that Burrow had. After a decade of trying to decide if Newton deserved to be the greatest SEC quarterback of all-time for his 2010 season, the masses couldn’t help but think of the historical context of Burrow’s season. That’s what happens when you shatter single-season touchdown records with the most battle-tested schedule we’ve ever seen a champion plow through.
Who declared Burrow’s season the best ever? Here are a few:
- Yahoo Sports’ Pete Thamel
- Bleacher Report’s Adam Kramer
- CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd
- USA Today’s Dan Wolken
- Brett Favre
That’s right. Even Favre gave Burrow the hat tip. You know it’s a season for the ages when even the college quarterbacks from 30 years ago are giving it up.
And if you’re telling me that Burrow’s season wasn’t legendary because he played in a favorable system or he had too much talent around him, well, get out. Obviously, he had more talent around him than Newton. Nobody is debating that. But Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Justin Jefferson were 3-star recruits and LSU’s offensive line was mediocre at best in Burrow’s first year as a starter (and I’d argue a touch overrated in 2019). Nobody fit balls into tighter windows than Burrow, and he was a clutch as clutch gets.
That’s why Burrow absolutely deserves to at least be considered part of this discussion. Any argument that Newton is the best SEC quarterback of all-time for 1 season needs to include Burrow. Does it perhaps hurt Burrow that instead of playing somewhere in junior college he had mediocre numbers in leading LSU to a New Year’s 6 Bowl victory? In terms of public perception, it probably does. Weird.
If you want to dig up any sort of G.O.A.T. article from the past decade, they won’t have Burrow or Tagovailoa. That won’t be the case a few years from now.
The G.O.A.T. SEC quarterback articles I found had some, um, interesting takes. One from Bleacher Report had Archie Manning ranked ahead of Peyton Manning at No. 6 and No. 7, respectively. But wait, that’s not the best part! The reasoning for that decision was because Bear Bryant once declared that Archie Manning was the best quarterback he’d ever seen.
In other news, Bear Bryant died when Peyton Manning was 6 years old. Something tells me he would have changed his mind had he seen what quarterbacks did in the 1990s. Just a hunch.
Oh, and this Bleacher Report column also ranked Namath ahead of Newton and Manning. What’s the first sentence under Namath, you ask?
“Broadway Joe was Bear Bryant’s greatest quarterback.”
I can’t.
Speaking of awful takes, back in 2016 The Tennessean conducted a poll of the best SEC player of all-time. The winner? Manziel. The results of the poll were so frustrating that it prompted the headline “Johnny Manziel is SEC’s best? C’mon, really?” All you need to know about the legitimacy of this poll — or lack thereof — was that Manziel won the bracket-style tournament by trouncing Herschel Walker 76% to 24% in the semifinals and then he somehow beat Bo Jackson 95% to 5%.
I can’t with that, either.
In a much more sane ranking of SEC quarterbacks done in 2015, my guy Brad Crawford did a list for SDS and had this top 5:
- Tim Tebow
- Peyton Manning
- Johnny Manziel
- Cam Newton
- Danny Wuerffel
Manziel got the edge over Newton because he set the SEC record for total offense in a season in 2012. The counterpoint to that would be that Newton became the first SEC player to ever throw for 2,000 yards and run for 1,000 yards in a single season. His 50-touchdown campaign will keep him in this discussion for decades.
Well, I suppose that depends who you ask. When ESPN put together its list of the Top 150 players in college football history to honor the sport’s 150-year anniversary, there was great excitement … and it was met with great disappointment. All you need to know about that was that Roger Staubach, who had 18 career touchdown passes, was dubbed the best quarterback in college football history.
Obviously, there was a priority to recognize the 20th-century greats. There had to be. But did ESPN go too far into that direction? Absolutely. In case you forgot, here were the SEC quarterbacks who made the top 150:
- No. 21 Peyton Manning
- No. 50 Archie Manning
- No. 76 Tim Tebow
- No. 91 Steve Spurrier
- No. 135 Cam Newton
A few things.
One is obvious. There weren’t 75 college football players better than Tebow. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but opinions can be wrong. That opinion, my friend, is wrong.
Not having Wuerffel, Manziel or Tagovailoa is downright wrong. Wuerffel and Tagovailoa were two of the most efficient quarterbacks ever, and both won national titles while playing the position at a far higher level than nearly anyone who came before them. If you’re putting Newton for his 1 season, Manziel surely deserved a spot in the top 150 for what he did in his 2 years at College Station.
Again, this isn’t all statistical, but what did Manning do that Manziel didn’t? In Manziel’s sophomore year against just Alabama and Auburn, which were both national title contenders, he had 9 touchdown passes. That matched Archie Manning’s entire season-long output in his second season as a starter … when he finished No. 4 in the Heisman.
I get that the game was vastly different, but come on. The first sentence of the ESPN 150 story for Archie’s ranking is telling:
With a strong arm, crazy legs and an aw-shucks smile, Manning signed a lifelong lease in the hearts of not just Ole Miss football fans, but fans throughout the south.
It looks like all Manziel needed was a better smile because there’s no chance that Archie’s legs were “crazier” and that his arm was stronger. Watch their YouTube highlights and tell me I’m wrong. And if this is all about how they performed relative to their competition, Manziel won a Heisman and Archie was never even runner-up, so that argument doesn’t pass, either.
Even the rankings that I didn’t necessarily have a problem with got me riled up. For instance, this sentence about Peyton Manning’s greatness is a stretch:
No, he didn’t win a national championship and (because!) he didn’t beat Florida. But Bear Bryant never beat Notre Dame, and his career turned out all right, too.
Right, because Manning’s Florida hurdle was totally the same as Bryant’s Notre Dame hurdle. Totally. The whole “Bear won 6 rings” thing had nothing to do with how we remembered him. Besides the apples-to-orange comparison of a player to a coach, Manning’s inability to beat Florida was and is something that has to be discussed as it relates to his college legacy.
In fact, every member of the “Super 6” has a demerit:
- Peyton Manning — Couldn’t beat Florida to win national title
- Danny Wuerffel — His surroundings (Spurrier’s offense, elite receivers, etc.) boosted him
- Tim Tebow — Not an elite passer
- Cam Newton — Only played 1 season
- Tua Tagovailoa — Noticeable drop-off against top 20 defenses
- Joe Burrow — 1 season as decent QB, 1 season as all-time great
Take a drink every time you see one of those points made in the comments.
Just kidding. For the sake of your liver, don’t do that. I worry that you’ll die and you won’t get to read the rest of this!
The worst take you can have about this debate
I’m going to sound like I just hated football before 1990. I promise that I don’t. For what it’s worth, I’ll bang the drum all day for Herschel as the SEC’s best player ever. But you already know what I think the worst take for this debate is.
It’s arguing that any of the pre-Manning/Wuerffel candidates deserve to be the SEC’s quarterback G.O.A.T.
I get it. Those guys had major hurdles to deal with. They didn’t have strength and conditioning coaches or programs. They didn’t have tablets they could look at when they got to the sidelines to figure out why they just threw an interception. If you want to argue that the quarterbacks of the 1960s and 1970s didn’t have the same resources available, sure, that’s fine.
But you wouldn’t say that makes those quarterbacks more deserving of being called the best SEC quarterback ever. That’d be like saying, “well, George Mikan had it pretty tough and he was the best player of his era, so he’s got to be considered better than Michael Jordan.” That’s insanity.
The film doesn’t lie. I watched a 13-minute special on Spurrier that was made during his playing days at Florida. How many times did he throw the ball over 30 yards in the entire video? Once. And if you think those players were every bit as athletic as today’s athletes, ask yourself the following questions.
Is peak-Spurrier making Devin White miss in the open field? Is peak-Namath running away from Myles Garrett? Is Archie Manning completing passes with a blitzing Josh Allen in his face? No chance.
Speaking of that, do you want a reason that isn’t comparing stats? Easy. Let’s talk about integration, shall we?
Nate Northington was the first black player of any kind in the SEC … in 1967. It wasn’t until Bear Bryant’s all-white Alabama team got housed by USC’s mixed-race team in 1970 that integration in the SEC finally got some serious momentum.
Why is that significant? Namath’s college career ended in 1964, Spurrier’s finished in 1966 while Archie Manning was done after the 1970 season and Sullivan’s senior year at Auburn was 1971.
I’m not considering someone who didn’t have to face black players worthy of “best quarterback in SEC history.”
It was a watered-down level of competition. That’s undeniable. Nobody could write the story of college football of the last 50 years by only using white players. Integration raised the quality of the sport and made it more difficult to play the quarterback position.
That point would hold true if 1960s quarterbacks had much more efficient numbers, but they didn’t even have that. Not only did they not air it out anywhere close to the rates we see now, they weren’t as accurate as modern quarterbacks. Burrow’s worst single-game percentage was 63%, which Spurrier never averaged in an entire season. I mean, from the beginning of November through the rest of the season, Burrow had 197 completions. Namath, meanwhile, had 203 completions in his entire Alabama career.
It’s ignorant to pretend the quarterback position didn’t have major developments in the last half-century. We’re all better for it.
Thing I didn’t know/forgot about until researching/revisiting this debate
A few months ago, there was a debate on Twitter about the best 5 college football quarterbacks ever (not just SEC). The Athletic’s Ari Wasserman rolled out the list of Tebow, Burrow, Newton, Lamar Jackson and Vince Young. I quote-tweeted that and said “this is the best 5 I’ve seen” with admittedly not putting a ton of thought into it.
One of the comments to that tweet initially made me roll my eyes:
Danny Wuerffel is number 1. 4 SEC championships, national championship, Heisman Trophy, 2 time SEC POY, 2 time First Team AA. No modern QB has a resume like him.
— Brian Rosen (@gatorphi561) March 26, 2020
I thought, of course the Gators fan wants to give Wuerffel some love. But let’s be honest. Does he really deserve to be in that group, though?
Before you get mad at my ignorance, I was born in 1990. The first college quarterback I remember thinking was truly special was Peyton Manning. Of course, his career finished a year after Wuerffel, who played his last game when I was 6. So why is it that Wuerffel, who beat Manning each time and won the coveted Heisman/national title combination he fell short of, doesn’t immediately come to mind when all-time greats are discussed?
After rewatching= highlights and taking a closer look at his career numbers, I called up his former teammate, Chris Doering, and he confirmed the reasons I think we tend to forget about Wuerffel.
REASON NO. 1 — The physical talent
Compared to the rest of the Super 6, there’s no doubt that Wuerffel was the least talented physically. He didn’t have the strongest arm. Nobody was going to confuse Wuerffel for Newton, Manziel or Tebow once he got into the open field. Shoot, Tagovailoa and Burrow ran better than he did, too. That physical talent was why he was only a mid-round NFL prospect.
REASON NO. 2 — The lack of NFL success
Nothing will make people question a college legacy like a lack of NFL success. Wuerffel’s brief NFL career was obviously nowhere near the level of Manning. Go ask guys like Murray or Ron Dayne how much their lack of NFL success factored into their college legacies. Fair or not, they absolutely did. Wuerffel’s 12 career NFL touchdown passes probably served as revisionist history for how good he was in college. Why? Well …
REASON NO. 3 — The surroundings
Playing in Spurrier’s offense certainly allowed a quarterback to maximize his abilities. The high volume of passing certainly helped, though he actually had 14 fewer pass attempts in 1 fewer game than Manning in 1996. And those Florida receivers, as we know, were nasty. Between Ike Hilliard, Jacquez Green, Reidel Anthony and Doering, the Gators were loaded on the outside. Wuerffel would be the first to admit that he was blessed in Gainesville.
So does that mean Wuerffel was overrated? Nope. In fact, I admittedly underrated him. Go watch his highlights. He might not have had the strongest arm, but as Doering said, few quarterbacks were more accurate on passes over 10 yards. Wuerffel always got the ball where it needed to be.
And as much as I picked on 20th-century quarterbacks for their numbers, consider this. Wuerffel played in his last game nearly 24 years ago. Since then, only 2 Power 5 quarterbacks recorded multiple seasons of at least 10 yards per attempt. That list was Tagovailoa and Baker Mayfield. The guy was crazy efficient.
Nobody is going to touch Wuerffel’s 4 SEC championships (I get that he was injured as a true freshman in 1993 but he helped get them there). Beating Tennessee every year as a starter certainly helped, as did the fact that he finished his career as the SEC’s all-time leader in passing touchdowns (Murray broke that mark in 2013). As a junior and senior — when he no longer shared snaps with Terry Dean — the Gators only lost to a Nebraska team some would argue was the best ever, and then to Florida State, but that was avenged in the title game.
Wuerffel led Florida to the No. 3 offense in America in 1995 and the No. 1 offense in America in 1996. He beat rivals, he made clutch plays, he filled the stat sheet, he won a Heisman Trophy, etc. What more could you have wanted a college quarterback to do?
It took a random Twitter comment to remind me just how good Wuerffel was. Consider this my hat tip.
Where I stand on this debate
The moment we’ve all been waiting for.
Who deserves to be No. 1? If we’re talking individual seasons, I’d give it to Burrow over Newton despite the talent disparity. Burrow’s precision was at such an all-time level that he gets my vote for that. But if we’re talking best SEC quarterback of all-time, I had to favor someone who was elite for more than a year. I tend to think someone who has to deal with the offseason scrutiny and being at the top of every scouting report for an entire offseason has a tougher challenge.
Even though I’d probably have Burrow at No. 2, that’s why I give Manning, Tebow, Tagovailoa and Wuerffel so much credit. All of them returned at one point as decorated, household names and they delivered. That’s such a difficult thing to do. If that’s your top 4 SEC quarterbacks ever, I’m not talking you out of that opinion.
But here’s what I come back to. If it’s 4th-and-goal with my life on the line and I can pick any quarterback to score from 3 yards out, there’s 1 name that stands above the rest.
It’s Tebow.
Give me Tebow over anybody who ever played the position in the SEC. Never mind the larger-than-life persona that he brought on. Just look at what Tebow did in his 4-year career and tell me I’m crazy:
- Freshman year
- Becomes best role player in America in helping Florida win first national title in 10 years (the Gators don’t beat South Carolina without him)
- Sophomore year
- Becomes first sophomore to win Heisman thanks to an absurd 32 touchdown passes and 23 rushing scores
- Junior year
- Following Ole Miss loss, delivers “The Promise” and fuels one of most impressive post-September stretches we’ve ever seen en route to a national title
- Senior year
- Takes step back statistically, but still goes 12-1 and becomes SEC’s all-time leader in touchdowns responsible for and rushing touchdowns
He was a 3-time All-American, a 2-time national champion, a Heisman winner and he should’ve been a 3-time SEC Player of the Year (he won the Heisman in 2007 but didn’t get that honor over Darren McFadden). He was as decorated as a quarterback gets, but it wasn’t just some media narrative.
We’re still talking about someone who holds the all-time lead in SEC for touchdowns responsible for. In fact, only Murray and Wuerffel are within 30 touchdowns of Tebow, and both were 4-year starters compared to 3 for Tebow. He’s still first in SEC in rushing touchdowns (57) and Derrick Henry is the only SEC player who ever had more rushing scores than the 23 that Tebow put up during that Heisman season.
And say what you want about his passing limitations, but give me the guy with an 88-16 TD-INT ratio who averaged 9.3 yards attempt as a 66% passer. I’ll take the unorthodox delivery with results like that. He wasn’t Manning or Burrow in that department, but there’s a reason the guy went 23-1 after “The Promise” with his lone loss coming to eventual-national champion Alabama in the 2009 SEC Championship.
Tebow became a phenomenon in ways that few college athletes — if any — ever have. The constant media coverage and lack of sustained NFL success made it easy to pile on him, but it shouldn’t diminish a single thing that he did during his 4 years in Gainesville.
We’ve asked the question often over the course of the past decade-plus, and with good reason. We’ll probably revisit that discussion soon when another great SEC quarterback inevitably sets the college football world ablaze.
For me, though, it’s still the same answer — Tebow is the G.O.A.T.
I hate Floriduh more than any team in any sport anywhere. I hate their coaches. I hate their players. I hate their fans. I hate the color orange, which is scientifically proven to be the worst color on the wheel.
Saying all that, only an idiot would answer the question, “Who is the best QB in SEC History,” with any other answer than Tim Tebow.
Peyton never beat Florida. Not once. Not even in the season he won the conference.
Aaron Murray beat Florida a lot, and he owns most of the SEC passing records, but he never won the conference.
SCam Newton played a single season in the SEC. And did so for $180K. No dice.
Joe Burrow had the greatest single season in CFB and SEC history, but a season does not a career make.
AJ McCarron has two titles, but he was Jake Fromm before Jake Fromm. He was a caretaker, not a difference-maker.
The answer is Tebow, and much like Herschel is the greatest player in SEC History after all these years, Tebow will likely be No. 2 behind him, and the best QB in SEC History, for a long, long time. It would take someone great to come in and have three all-time years to replace him. That’s tough to do. When a great QB like Trevor Lawrence can be seen as having a “disappointing” second year when he takes his team to a second straight title game, we see how difficult it is to do what Tebow did.
Now excuse me, I have to go gargle with grain alcohol to get this disgusting taste out of my mouth.
Corch, It’s chilly for a late May day and I’m pretty sure hell has frozen over.
But yes, Tebow overall. Burrow hands down for best single season.
Corch thank you for respecting true facts and not just going by your opinion
And who was the offensive coordinator for Tebow, the greatest SEC QB of all-time? Probably some hack that can’t develop QBs.
No, just some guy that Kirby Smart ABSOLUTELY OWNS!!!
The only way MuLLLen could beat Kirby is with a guy like Tebow. In fact, the only time in his entire career Sideshow Dan the Clown ever did beat Kirby was as Florida’s OC with Tebow.
Otherwise, as a head coach, Cousin Eddie has never beaten a team that Kirby Smart has coached as a DC or HC.
Give it a rest. Mullen’s been at Florida for two years and took over a 4-7 team.
I feel the same way, except for the pick lol. For me, it was Danny Wuerffel. You just didn’t see that style of play from anyone until him. I just always felt like every game in his era the Gators would score 50 with his passing yards making you think it was a misprint.
Wuerffel was the ultimate system QB.
Tebow would’ve won in a triple option offense or an Air Raid or the Fun N Gun.
Adding to the dog’s reply above. I am an older fan. I have watched SEC football since Spurrier played. I saw him play. I have seen them come and go. But I have never seen anything like Herschel Walker on a football field. And I despise red and black. I hear them say Bo Jackson and laugh. Herschel was a man playing with boys in the SEC. And a good man. But I will say Emmitt Smith was pound for pound and his size a marvel to behold when he wore our colors…….
Hard for me too, Corch. But I agree with you about Tebow.
Thank you for recognizing Wuerffel.
In college he was clearly better than Manning. System or not, they both had extremely talented rosters. Wuerffel just got the better of him. I believe in their matchups Tennessee was favored and/or the higher ranked team a couple of times.
I still don’t understand why they decided to add post-season stats to season stats and didn’t retroactively count them. That hurts guys like Wuerffel and Manning in the long run. Either count them all or not at all. I prefer not at all.
But yeah, the correct answer is Tebow and it’s not particularly close either.
Didn’t know Danny played defense. Great qb, but one of many great qb’s to slump in the place it matters most (the league). He was in a revival tent on Sunday’s while Peyton was making a legacy in the league.
What does playing in the NFL have to do with a QB’s career in the SEC?
I didn’t say it defines whether a player’s college career is successful or not, it’s simply a more important metric for overall greatness (and monetary gains). Doing well is college is great, but I think most people would rather prosper in a career, whether that be in the ministry or being satisfied in the simple pleasures of getting offended on message boards ;).
I mean if we are going down that road, Joe Namath won both.
Well if NFL success is the only thing that matters, I guess Manning is little more than Brady’s do boy.
Didn’t say it was “all that matters”. Brady is better than Manning, as is Breeze in some respects. Why the vitriol from you children?
And for the record, in measuring his post-collegiate career, I’d rank Wuerffel ahead of Joel Osteen but below Oral Roberts, which is more than generous. Graham is still the GOAT.
Joel Osteen is a snake oil salesman, but a successful one nonetheless.
Actually, Wade, you’d probably be surprised to know that Manning, head-to-head, has a winning record against Brady in the playoffs.
And when the SuperBowl was on the line, Manning went 3-1 against Brady in AFC Championship games, too.
But he was 0-4 vs UF in the SEC. And we pushed him down and stole his lunch money in ’97 when Doug Johnson beat the Vols.
Tebow. No debate. Period.
Yikes. What a lengthy article. Indeed, based upon college accomplishments, as well as intangibles, Tim Tebow is the best.
Gotta say Tebow here; however, I’d also guarantee you Tebow or any other SEC qb would trade their college career for Peyton’s NFL career
Again… what does that have to do with this? It doesn’t “win” you this argument. In fact, Peyton brought his Florida-choking with him into the NFL where he often played his worst games under the brightest lights, just like at Tennessee.
He stunk in both Super Bowls he won, and was a main reason the Colts lost to the Saints. The Patriots absolutely owned him. Sure, he has a ton of passing records playing bad teams in a bad division, but using your logic, I think Manning would trade his career for Brady’s. Right? Gotta be consistent, hillbilly.
Peyton would trade his NFL career for Brady’s in a heartbeat. I actually like the Peyton Place episodes they have on ESPN but dam near every one of them he takes an opportunity to throw a dart at Brady, Belichick, or both so you know it eats at him every day.
Didn’t say he wouldn’t
And oskie I didn’t reply to YOU, did I?
You would know about things eating at you every day based on your posting history. (Note:this is a response directly to you involving you).
Go Patriots!
Imagine being a “grown” man and being this upset on a message board. Too funny.
Manning had a winning record against Brady in the playoffs. Have a nice day.
Oskie that goes to show you don’t know Tebow!
Don’t personally know him but met him while he broadcasted for SEC nation. Great college qb and seems like a good guy.
I don’t think Tebow would. Dude has done just fine in the booth and seems to enjoy baseball. Peyton has some painful senior years ahead of him with all those hits he took. Tebow seems pretty content with where he is at
Wuerffel
Yep. Wuerffel changed how the league viewed Quarterbacks. The irony is that his biggest loss (1995 Championship Game) was to a team with a more Tebow like QB (still remember him chugging down the field with Gator defenders on his back).
But the all Madden All Time team wasn’t beating the Cornhuskers that year and that was that style of football (and Nebraska’s) last gasp. The future of the sport would look like Wuerffel’s Gators.
Comparing any Athlete Of One Time Period to Another is difficult. The style of play changes from Run/Run/Run to Pass/Pass/Pass and then the Spread-Offense thrown-in to complicate the process. I am torn between Danny Wuerffel & Peyton Manning. Tennessee did not beat Florida wile Peyton was there for one reason…Steve Spurrier got into Phil Fulmer’s head and Tennessee’s focus was not there…as Fulmer’s being bothered by the Head Ball Coach’s quips. I’m picking Peyton Manning.
Lots of other talented Quarterbacks have played in the SEC. Tim Tebow was the most Inspiring QB to ever suit up in the Conference…true, but the best ? He is still in many people’ minds for his inspirational speeches and some great play.
I’m kinda surprised that AJ Mcarron didn’t get more love. 2 losses in his college career and 3 bcs titles. Yes he played for a stacked Bama team but so did Tua.
In the end it is Tebow though.
AJ was labeled as a game manger not a great QB. That’s why he didn’t receive much love.
I’m partial to Wuerffel but Tebow was the total package in terms of the ability to run and throw. Burrow and Newton had the single best seasons however.
Don’t forget Tebow’s leadership ability, he could light a fire under his team mates and will them to victory. The Promise was a prime example of that but listening to that guy in the locker room or in the huddle must have been pretty intense
Timmy is tops. Best SEC qb ever.
Joe Burrow greatest single season ever and Tebow greatest over a career. Although it’s not terrible if you still think Manning or Wuerffel because a strong case be made for either.
You’re right that many, many things are done better now than they were 50-75 years ago. Sports writing is not one of them.
^^Million Upvotes^^
Jared Lorenzen and Tim Couch don’t even crack the list for consideration? Come on!
Do you consider either the best QB in SEC history? They aren’t in the discussion for good reason. Couch could at least be in the conversation, but he would be dismissed early on. Too many others have passed him. Lorenzen is not even a consideration. Not close.
Amongst this list, yes, absolutely. Too much emphasis on winning the SEC. Being a great QB and leading your team to an SEC title do not necessarily coincide with one another. Which I assume is also the reason Eli Manning’s name is conspicuously missing from this list. I mean, you wouldn’t say Trent Dilfer was a better quarterback than Dan Marino because one of them has a super bowl ring.
That wasn’t the only criteria. Even without the winning, neither should be in the discussion. Same with Eli. They didn’t do enough in the SEC to be in the discussion. None are close. Feel free to make the case for any of the three you mentioned to be over any that the writer considered.
Manning’s numbers compare favorably to Wuerffel’s and Tebow’s. Yardage-wise, so do Lorenzen’s. I guess the biggest problems with these types of debates is that it’s difficult to make a determination just looking at numbers because there are too many intangibles at play. Couch, Lorenzen and Manning all had far fewer weapons to work with than Wuerffel and Tebow. I’m not necessarily saying that any of the 3 is the greatest of all time, just that I consider them to be amongst the greatest of all time. While you obviously aren’t taking NFL careers into consideration for purposes of this debate, it does highlight my point about Tebow and Wuerffel having the weapons they had in college. Both of them had pretty short-lived NFL careers once they were taken out of their college systems. Though Tebow has good passing stats, he wasn’t really a passer, and his numbers were padded by other factors (offensive weapons, being a prolific runner).
And again, intangible here but the athleticism that Lorenzen had at that size was just incredible. He’s a truly one of a kind, probably once in a lifetime player.
The best QB in Kentucky history was Andre Woodson. Why are you feeding us Lorenzen and Couch?
Whaaat? Woodson? Get outta here!
And I’m not saying that Dilfer and Tebow are a fair analogy, just saying that winning the SEC title shouldn’t be overemphasized.
No they dont. Fat boy was an interception machine and cost us many games. Couch was the greatest 3 yard down field passer ever. Winning matters neither did. Hell, Bowden did more than either. Who cares if he couldn’t pass.
Bayou tiger you are right Woodson is UK’s best.
And I’ll admit with Jared, my evaluation of him is largely intangible. I just think he had incredible abilities, whether that translated to wins or not. Never forget that 7 OT game against Arkansas when he basically willed Kentucky to a win.
Fair enough. But the situations were a little different. Woodson had the benefit of the Rich Brooks system taking hold, more or less building off what started with Lorenzen. Brooks showed up his sophomore year, I believe, right? Think Mumme was only there his first year. Kentucky was far more competitive by then.
Tebow had the best four year career.
Tua had the best three year career.
Burrow had the best two year career.
Cam had the best one year career at Auburn.
Summed it up perfectly
^^agreed.
Spot on
Wonder what Tua’s stats would have been like if he was the starter for 3 years. Probably top 5 in SEC for passing yards.
I think that if he would have stayed healthy and started for three years, he could be top three.
I believe so too. Very well could have unseated Murray.
If you’re thinking single season.. there is no debate. Joe Burrow. Was as close to perfection as anyone on this site will see in their lifetimes.
Career wise, probably Tim Tebow.
Agreed. I’d say LSU as a whole had the greatest single season at least in my lifetime. Prior to this…the 95 Cornhuskers. But to face the schedule Burrow and LSU did and win them all in the manner they did…people will be talking about it 50 years from now.
Can we please keep the 95 Huskers talk to a minimum lol. The single worst memory of my Childhood.
Not that it matters nor does it take away from him being the GOAT SEC QB, but Tebow was 0-2 vs Auburn. Just want to throw that out there lol
0-1 unless you want to count him running the ball 3 times for 18 yards and 7 of Florida’s 17 points in 06.
I was counting that game too lol
Which school had the greatest cheerleaders of all time?
Clearly UK lol
“Modern Era” have to go with Tim Tebow with Peyton Manning close behind but it was Tee Martin to win games Peyton couldn’t. I’d put Joe B there based on the single season and Cam behind him. Heck if Eli had better talent around him there’s no telling where he’d rank.
Tebow
Wow shocked that King Neagan hasn’t commented.
Ryan Mallet had two outstanding seasons. Cumulative 8400 pass yards 69 TDs 24 INTs, 57.8%. Comparable numbers to Manziel and Newton other than rushing yards. Tebow did have better numbers and was “given” a heisman trophy in spite of darren McFadden’s superior numbers.
Ryan Mallet was good, but I don’t think he should be in the discussion. For that matter, Dak as the best SEC QB ever doesn’t belong in it either.
Peyton Manning is the GOAT. No question.
I’ve got questions…
If you’ve got a good argument, why cherry pick?
“But Clyde Edwards-Helaire and Justin Jefferson were 3-star recruits”
They are also, and more recently and relevantly, 1st round draft picks. That pretty much screams talented.
And there are plenty of good arguments for Tebow being the greatest SEC qb (despite the surrounding stink) without inventing some arbitrary, entirely subjective and offhand criteria like this: “But here’s what I come back to. If it’s 4th-and-goal with my life on the line and I can pick any quarterback to score from 3 yards out, there’s 1 name that stands above the rest.”
We are all made worse by consuming discourse like this as it undermines sound reason and good communication.
So I understand the fact that the pre integration guys had a lower level of competition as a result, but in Joe Namath’s case wouldn’t the fact that he won a Super Bowl as well negate some of that? And with the Jets no less.
Namath didn’t really win that game. The Jets won 16-7 and they were the beneficiary of five turnovers. He at least didn’t throw any interceptions.
You make a good point about multi-season quarterbacks deserving more consideration because they had to live up to the hype, deal with defenses with more time to prepare, etc.
The flip side of the multi-season player is that the quarterback also has extra time to develop, to study film of defenses, to learn the system, etc.
I still believe that a look at the team as a whole matters more. Florida was a powerhouse with or without Tebow. They won a title with Chris Leak and Tebow as the backup.
In my mind, the two best quarterbacks in the SEC’s history are Newton and Burrow. Honestly, flip a coin on that one. Yes, Burrow set records, but 2010 Auburn was a bunch of nobodies. Auburn in 2010 without Newton was at best an 8-4 team … because that’s what they were the year before and year after Newton. Auburn was also 2 years removed from going 5-7 and were 2 years away from going 3-9. LSU is a most solid program now than Auburn was then.
Don’t buy it? Take a look at the 2011 draft and see how many (few) Auburn players went. It was Newton, DE Nick Fairly both in the 1st round and then … …. …… DT Zach Clayton and OT Lee Ziemba all the way down in the 7th round.
Compare that to LSU’s latest draft where they beat Auburn entire 2010 draft class at 4 players just in the first round (with 5 players) and had 14 total drafted.
You can’t tell me Burrow didn’t benefit from the knowledge that the defense was going to get things done, or that his receivers were top-notch, or that the ground game was going to pick up those yards.
I mean, consider this: in 2010, Auburn was down 24-0 to Alabama. Cam Newton won that game. Without Cam Newton, I seriously doubt Auburn even comes close to making the game competitive. Burrow never had that sort of moment. LSU owned every game they were in start to finish. Oh, some of the games were competitive, but Burrow never pulled victory out of the jaws of defeat like Newton did.
And I think if you were to plug Newton into LSU’s situation last year, we would have gotten the same result … undefeated LSU with a record-setting QB.
That’s no offense to Burrow. Again, both he and Newton had remarkable seasons.
Cam can’t throw like Burrow. He wasn’t setting any SEC passing records, regardless of the system. He did win a title with much less of a supporting cast than Burrow had.
No, Cam can’t throw like Burrow. But, Burrow couldn’t run like Cam. I don’t think anyone ever stopped Cam when it was 3rd or 4th and short. Tebow is the GOAT, but I would take Cam on the goal line with 3 yrds to go.
Me too. Tebow had a great career, but there are a few guys I would take over him on any one play situation.
Tim Tebow.
For the simple reason…..
His style, actually binds the present college football system with the old system in a truer fashion than probably any of the others mentioned.
Schemes changes, style changes, strength changes, but the human spirit pretty much is there for those that embrace it.
So while we judge the present, based on the solid foundation of the present.
The past is illustrioary and slippery, with its own time and place.
Tim I’m sure, could have been excelled in both era’s, on any team. Due to the recognition of Spirit or call it Game, by the fans of whatever era the fans exist.
As much as I hate to admit it it has to be Tebow. I don’t see how it’s even debatable.
The question wasn’t about who had the best game or best season or best stats. It was who has the best career. It’s Tebow hands down. I would still put the old school guys in the discussion but I would also argue that Tim would have won in any era.
“SCam Newton played a single season in the SEC. And did so for $180K. No dice.” Corch, and you KNOW this for a fact???? NCAA said no…. I’ll go with them vs your infinite knowledge… 180K is what was discussed at MISS ST, not at Auburn… Cam went to Auburn because they DIDN’T discuss money – that, and they had a senior-laden offensive line coming back… believe it, the way bammer controls the SEC and the NCAA, if they had found ANYTHING out of place with Newton, they would have been crucified.
Tebow and it’s not that close.
Everybody said he was the GOAT when he finished at Florida and nothing has happened since to change that. Wuerfull sure was fun to watch, though.
I think it’s Danny Wuerrffel. UF’s scoring offense finished in the top 4 all four of his years, including 1st during his senior year. Tebow peaked his junior year. Manning never beat Danny. UF’s schedule included the dominant teams of the nineties on a regular basis.
Don’t over think it.. It’s Cam Newton AND Joe Burrow all day
They both did wonders in a single season.
Y. A. Tittle, Charlie Conerly, Fran Tarkenton? To name just a few.
Did they play in the SEC?
You do realize one of those was yours.
Nice. I know Scramblin’ Fran is ours, but most of the highlights I see are of him in a Vikings uniform. Fun to watch though for sure.
Yes I know that, my question is did these players play in the SEC. Was it the SEC at that time? Were they members? My memory gets fuzzy the further I go back.
Yes. That was still the SEC. The SEC came to be in 1932
I think we are in a majority agreement that it’s Tim Tebow here.
Corch, you just brought a tear to my eyes. A comment like this is what we call, growth.
In Corch’s case, *G*rowth
This is an interesting discussion. I enjoyed reading it from first word to the last. This could be discussed all day and night, and a consensus could not be reached. How do you compare players like Babe Parilli, Harry Gilmer, Charlie Conerly, or Bill Wade from an earlier time? Where would you put the great single wing tailbacks that were their teams’ primary passers? Johnny Majors might be in the argument.
Statistics alone do not give you a great answer. My expertise is actually the pre-merger NFL and AFL, and there were quarterbacks before 1970 that were incredible talented.
Think about a few things. Pass blocking rules have greatly changed. The football itself has even changed, as it became more tapered through the years.
Then, you have the philosophies of the offenses of the past with those of later times. Look at Joe Namath versus today’s NFL.
Both QBs might have passed the ball 30 times in the same game. Namath might have attempted 7 to 10 passes longer than 30 yards down the field. He might have attempted 5 to 7 passes between 15 and 25 yards down the field. He might have attempted another 5 to 7 between 5 and 15 yards down the field, and then the rest would have been dump passes and screen passes behind the line to 5 yards downfield. This could have been the outcome
Long Passes: 2-9 for 100 yards, a TD and an INT
Medium Passes: 3-7 for 60 yards, a TD and INT
Short Passes: 5-7 for 40 yards
Dump Passes: 4-6 for 20 yards
Other Pass: 0-2 for 0 yards
What is the other pass? In Namath’s days, a QB could not spike the ball in the ground to stop the clock. He had to quickly take a step back and throw the ball over his receiver’s head out of bounds, and the stats counted this as an incomplete pass. Today, the spike is a team play not counted against the QB.
This comes to 14 of 31 for 220 yards with 2 TDs and 2 Int. One of those Int was a long bomb, most likely thrown on 3rd down 40+ yards down the field and better than a punt. The most important part would be that Namath’s day would lead to 30 points scored, which is what the Jets averaged in 1968.
Today’s QB may not throw 10 long bombs in a season. Here is a typical 21st century passing QB.
Long Passes over 30 yards down the field: 0 of 0 for 0 yards
Medium Passes: 3-8 for 70 yards
Short Passes: 12-17 for 115 yards with 2 TDS
Dump Passes: 5-6 for 35 yards
Total: 20-31 for 220 yards and 2 TDs.
The QB Ratings do not differentiate between a 1-yard TD pass and a 75-yard TD pass, nor does it differentiate between a 45 yard interception with no return on 3rd and 12 and a pick 6 interception thrown into the flat.
What matters is that the QB can move his offense down the field to score points. Whether it be on three or four quick scoring bursts or three or four sustained drives, a TD is still a TD.
It is my personal opinion that QBs like Johnny Unitas, Otto Graham, Bobby Layne, and Norm Van Brocklin would put up stats similar to Drew Brees and Tom Brady today if they played in today’s game.
I believe that QBs like Daryle Lamonica, Len Dawson, John Hadl, Sonny Jurgensen, and Roman Gabriel would be superstars playing today.
For that very same reason, I cannot be convinced otherwise that Parilli, Gilmer, Majors, Wade, and Conerly wouldn’t be prime contenders for best ever QB/Single Wing TB in SEC history.
Does Hines Ward count LOL. I mean, he played QB and certainly had a successful career at the next level, all be it catching passes vs throwing them. Perhaps the greatest receiver to play QB in the SEC!
I know he is not anywhere close to this discussion, but I would liked to have seen Eric Zier in a modern offense.
But the answer is Danny Weurffel though Tebow is also acceptable.