WATCH: ESPN's Max Kellerman argues that Notre Dame's 'Fighting Irish' nickname is offensive
In today’s sports media landscape, it’s often only the loudest, worst takes that stand out among the crowd.
That’s where ESPN’s “First Take” comes in, as cohosts Stephen A. Smith and Max Kellerman often try to outdo each other’s bad opinions.
On Wednesday, though, Kellerman came up with an all-time bad take. While discussing news of the Cleveland Indians stopping the use of their popular “Chief Wahoo” mascot, Kellerman said the Notre Dame “Fighting Irish” mascot should be dropped, too:
“Many Irish Americans are not offended, but many are,” Kellerman said. “Should that also change? The answer is unequivocally yes. Pernicious, negative stereotypes of marginalized people that offend even some among them should be changed. It’s not that hard.”
To be fair, he’s at least in favor of the removal of mascots containing Native Americans, but the Fighting Irish thing may be a bit too far.
Well of course it is. All teams in all sports should wear opaque uniforms and tge names should be team A, B, C… do not use the word fightin in anything. No animal names. Please be as generic as possible so we don’t offend any one of the billions of people in the world. And should we offend those who feel the alphabet is oppressed and abused let’s be sure we have an abundant supply of teddy bears and flowers as well as therapists to console their poor aching souls for being soooo abused.
Everyone is capable of being offended by something, even you. Until it happens to you, you will just trivialize the feelings of others. Something tells me that if an American sports team were named the Puritan Pukes, it might cause a bit more of an uproar amongst Americans…
The Virginia WASPs, for example. But I believe the poster is being sarcastic.
The Tennessee Bible Humpers. No problemo, right?
So do you think the owner of a team in Tennessee would name themselves that? You are trying way too hard.
Sure, why not? What if you had an atheist owner who wanted to appeal to a certain demo in the area? The point is, you’d be offended.
Even if the owner hated Christians, he would be smarter than that from a business sense. Your argument is just a stretch. I’m not surprised.
You’re avoiding the point. It doesn’t matter whether or not someone might do it. What matters is that you’d be offended. But because it’s something you identify with it’s a valid offense. When it’s someone else, they’re just being sensitive.
You don’t get to speak for me. Your point is completely invalid because it is pure nonsense. I don’t care what a team wants to call itself. That’s on them. If someone is offended, then they can speak for themselves. You feel the need to speak for everyone else. It’s just silly.
Everyone is capable of being offended. Having trouble trying to offend somebody? Just bring up guns.
Hey now. Let’s not be too hasty.
True but all of the offended parties these days have made the subject one of the most ridiculous ever brought up. It’s to the point that everyone on the left is offended by everything. For gods sake we had a sports announcer pulled from a game Because his last name was Lee! It has become lunacy that dilutes the real problem names/offenders….
The Puritan Pukes were an ABA team who changed their name to the Venemous Vomit Slingers.
That was to alatite
But it’s not just the left. That’s the fallacy. The right is constantly offended by anything that opposes or mocks religion, anyone that doesn’t pledge ultra patriotism (kneeling for anthems), anything gay, etc. You just think it’s stupid when it’s the other side that’s offended.
More over the top PC nonsense. This is what happens when morons try and out moron one another. This is also why ESPN is unwatchable outside of the actual games.
I wouldn’t classify myself as a very PC person, but out of respect for others I’m willing to change language that I use and adhere to new social norms. I’m a Howard Stern fan, I love offensive humor, but there’s a difference between comedy and reality. And we should always be striving to improve, be more considerate and inclusive.
I promise you could be offended by something related to your identity (career, religion, race, etc). So if someone took something you considered part of your identity and made a mockery of it (whether it was a dumb sports team name or something else) you’d be offended. So just realize that and try to see others’ perspectives.
The point is that “Fighting Irish” IS related to the Notre Dame identity, and most Irish don’t find it offensive to be labeled fighters.
Yeah, I don’t care about that particular one, but I think the movement now is to get away from the names that are negative stereotypes that could be associated with any particular demographic, as opposed to trying to defend each one as being not that offensive.
That’s my attitude as well.
I think the term “fighting” is simply adjunct at this point. Meaning-they are showing school spirit by fighting for 4 quarters. I don’t think people are stupid enough to associate drunk Irishmen fighting in pubs. Fighting could be literally added to any mascot. Have a look:
The Fighting Texas Aggies
The Fighting Tigers
The Fighting Elephants
The Fighting Vanderbilt Pirates
The Fighting Wildcats
The Fighting Eagle Tigers
The Fighting to hire a good coach (Tennessee)
The Fighting Piggies
The Fighting Rebels
The Fighting Bulldogs X2 (because one bulldog mascot is never enough)
The Fighting Roosters (might be illegal)
The Fighting Swamp Thangs
“Fighting” is not to be taken in a literal sense like this case with the Irish.
You mean The Fighting Texas A&M* Aggies
Nope, Anonymous1205. If you’re referring to that school that was built after Texas A&M, then your wrong. We are the Fighting Texas Aggies. Texas A&M University is the name of our college. We don’t acknowledge that school you’re referring to in any shape or form as the original state school in our great state of TX.
I have never heard an Irish person say they were offended by this name. That is the point. When you go out of your way to pretend to be offended, then you are the problem.
You’d complain no matter who was offended. Next XFL team: Louisiana Mardi Gays!
That makes no sense. Do you even know how nicknames come about? And you say you aren’t PC? Sure.
Yeah, check out the Redskins history I just posted below. It’s a great story.
I’m not seeing that Alatide is offended by this one, either. He has said as much.
He was offended by the term PC, and then denied he was. To each his own.
To you, ‘PC’ is just a label you apply to people that are offended by things you are not. But as I’ve pointed out, there are many things that would offend you as well. Anytime you show offense, I could just call you a PC loser and tell you to quit whining, but you wouldn’t like that, would you?
I already told you I’m not the type person to get offended. I am secure in who I am. I am solid in my faith, and I have great affinity for the Marine Corps and LSU. People crack on all of them. I will defend those things when appropriate, but I don’t get offended. It’s a free country, and it should stay that way. I learned as a young child the difference between sticks and stones, and words. Words can never hurt me. Words should never hurt anyone. If anything, they just point out the ignorance or hate of the person using them. I will defend the oppressed, but I’m still not offended by the oppressors.
I agree. I haven’t watched ESPN in over a year except for the games.
Look, put a side your feelings about if these mascots should be replaced. right or wrong. That is not the point of this comment.
But how is cheif wahoo any more or less offensive then the fighting irish. They are both trivializing a minority group for sport/profit.
I disagree with you there, sir. You don’t trivialize Americans when you call them fighting Americans, and you don’t trivialize Irish by calling them fighting Irish. The Irish came over and had to compete with the people who already owned all the stuff to make good. Those people tried to marginalize and trivialize the Irish, as people who have all the stuff will do when they feel that their stuff is threatened. But the fact that our ancestors fought back and won their place in society is something that we are proud of.
The point about team names and mascots is that some propagate negative stereotypes and some pay homage to aspects of our culture that we consider positive. It’s important to think through which is which. When I do, I don’t see anything offensive about the “Fighting Irish” moniker.
Dilly dilly!
how is it different that the Indian?
I am all for keeping these mascots, I just want someone to explain why a white guy can be used as a mascot but not an indian?
An Indian can be used as a mascot, as long as it is done with dignity. Cleveland’s mascot just looks goofy with that big grin on his face. Some would say he looks drunk. Redskin doesn’t found very dignified, especially in these times.
What indian mascot in the country isnt under fire?
FSU. The Seminoles have the blessing of the tribe. If all Indian mascots go away, people will simply forget about them. We have no sense of history in this country.
a quick google search will tell you there is controversy over the Seminoles.
A quick google search shows the controversy is nonsense. The people involved don’t have an issue at all. It’s the PC crowd trying to speak for the actual Seminoles. It would be nice if they used an actual Seminole as the mascot.
I’m of Irish and Native American decent and none offend me, in fact, it’s quite the opposite. I have pride in my heritage of both and it’s honor that teams choose those mascots to represent strong, competitive sports. Teams don’t name themselves the cupcakes or wussies or other derogatory names…..like Voltrainconductors.
The only mascot that needs to be changed is the Washington redskin, for obvious reasons.
While I certainly understand how the mascot could be found offensive, that was not the intention when the team was first named. That’s just what it has become to many. No team gives themselves a nickname that intentionally mocks or degrades others. You have a mascot to represent yourself.
So dumb. This is why education is necessary and worth the investment. Who cares what their intention was. It’s stupid.
And how does a Redskin represent that team or the fans? There’s actually a documented history of this name where the team lied publicly for a long time claiming they had native Americans on the team (including a coach), but it was debunked and they found the coach actually illegally claimed he was native American to dodge the draft (he served time for this). In the end, they admitted they simply kept the name from their association with the Boston Braves as a marketing ploy to keep the “indian motif” going. That gives the name an even nastier history.
Nothing dumb about what I wrote. The name was not meant to be derogatory. End of story. They did it so they didn’t have to change the mascot. They were cheap, but not racists. Your liberal education is your issue. Going around sensitive is like going around angry. It’s a waste of energy.
Oh, they didn’t mean to be racist. Great.
Anyways, I’m sure you don’t waste energy being offended by athletes that kneel for the anthem, or waste energy being upset by flag burners or people who mock your religion, etc., right? You’re not sensitive like that, right?
I don’t get offended by anything. I leave that to you sensitive types. I don’t have any respect for those that kneel for fake reasons or burn the flag while offending others, but I served 20 years in the Marines so we all could have the freedom to do stupid stuff. I quit watching the nfl for a while, but that was my freedom of choice. We are all free here, not just you PC liberals. I am more turned off by the white supremacists, but they have rights too as long as they aren’t sprouting hate speech. Ignoring those types is the best defense. Losing your mind just gives them what they want, attention.
The fact that you quit watching the NFL proves that you were offended by the players taking a knee. It doesn’t matter how you express that offense, the fact remains that you were offended. I was not, so I could call you a conservative snowflake for being upset by a guy taking a knee. I could also call you a PC police (everyone must stand for the anthem…or else).
Your take is goofy. I don’t watch sci-fi shows either. I’m not offended by them, I just don’t care for them. Too many people like you like to speak for others. It serves no purpose other than to make you feel better about yourself. Your self worth is your issue. I do things that give me joy. End of story.
Your logic is goofy. You said you quit watching the NFL due to the players kneeling. That’s doing something for a reason. Not watching sci-fi simply due to lack of interest is not the same thing.
For a guy that doesn’t consider himself overly PC, you sure try awfully hard to make single person admit that they are. I wouldn’t expect you to see the nonsense in your posts. Continue to tell yourself whatever you like. Continue to speak for others you know nothing about. That seems to give you your self worth. I have other priorities. I don’t care for sci Fi or those that disrespect the flag for false reasons. I’m not telling either to stop what they are doing. I just personally don’t enjoy it, and I am at a point where I only do things that bring me joy. The miserable in this country like to go around fighting made up causes. That’s on them, and you apparently. You only only fooling yourself. Good luck with your issues.
I’m 1/64 Native American and 0% Irish (that I know of) and I don’t find it offensive. I am offended by people that feel like they need to be offended for the sake of other people. If there is a large constituency of Native Americans protesting…fine. Change it. If there’s a large group of Irish-Americans that are offended…fine. Change it. What I and most people are tire of is Joe Smith political science major feeling it’s his responsibility to stamp out racism that doesn’t exist.
I get tired of religious nuts claiming that there’s a war on Christmas every year. I’m tired of hearing right-wingers cry about people not standing for the anthem. Such whiners, right?
There are a lot of so called religious nuts out there that do much harm to the word of Jesus. They hurt the grand commission, which is to make more disciplines. We can’t do that when we display hate towards others. There are a lot of people in this country on both sides just looking for reasons to be angry. They never help matters.
Coming back to this very late, but it’s important to say that it isn’t possible to do any REAL harm to the word of Jesus. “Harm” is a belief — one of many — that we have concocted to justify our judgments of the world.
If I had a dollar for every time someone has to bring up religion or politics for no apparent reason…..
Just treat every person with respect that you come into contact with and the rest will take care of itself. Unless they don’t deserve it; then you do what you have to do.
Politics and religion has no place on SDS.
You know i could go on a long rant about how the world is full of P*ssies now but i think it its unspoken. These things arent meant to be offensive they are turned into something offensive. Can we stop worrying about offending people and start concerning ourselves with actual issues
Such nonsense. We look at established institutions from the past through our 21st century prism and propose to make value judgements — as if we’re oh so enlightened. One look at the Kardashians invalidates that claim.
I’m offended that our great university decided to call us Aggies when not all of us farm! Some of us own land and still refer to soil as dirt!
Lol Just playing. Aggie through and through, Farmers fight!
Our education apparatus built by the baby boomers (and run by liberals) has failed our millennials, who today believe they have a “right” not to be “offended.” There is no such right. And Max Kellerman has nothing more than personal, anecdotal support for his claim — he is just virtue signaling his like-minded supporters to show his SJW chops.
What’s next? The Green Bay Packers? The San Diego Padres? The Boston Celtics? The New York Yankees? The Pittsburgh Steelers?
I’m sure you can find some mentally unstable person who claims to be offended (and experiences mental anguish) at the word, “Yankee,” and so the logical conclusion of this stupid train of thought would be to get rid of the NYY’s nickname as well.
The common denominator in all of this is that someone is getting offended for someone else, and usually it’s to publicly broadcast their “open mindedness.” I lived in Oklahoma and Kansas and had Native American friends who disliked being not being called Indians, they’re the indigenous people of America. I lived in Cleveland before that time and loved the Indians and Jacobs field. I expressed that to my Indian friends, and they loved that the ball club was named that. They told me it was a “famous recognition of their people.” The only ones who get offended are the ones that are not effected by it, they’re speaking on others behalf, which to me seems much more offensive. Trying to speak out and be perceived as politically correct on someone else’s behalf is actually the opposite of politically correct.