Debates Down South: What are the SEC's 3 most egregious claimed national titles?
Claimed national championships are weird. And not.
They’re a punchline in modern college football because now, we have an actual way of crowning a champion with a Playoff system that’s widely accepted. It isn’t based on polls, and it allows for teams to decide it on the field (don’t tell UCF fans I said that).
When it comes out that a team claimed a national championship 50 years after the fact, we all collectively scratch our heads. Why, now, should they be honored as champs? Well, we know the reason. It’s all about marketing. Sell that vision to the outside world of “a championship caliber program” and don’t worry about who questions it.
It’s a dubious honor. No fan base wants their team mentioned as the “most egregious claimed national title.” The other day, I tweeted out that SEC teams had 11 claimed national titles that weren’t recognized by the NCAA and that 4 of them belonged to Tennessee, guess what the response was? Tennessee fans either being unhappy with me or accusing other schools of having more bogus national titles.
I don’t blame them. Nobody wants to be called a fraud.
The goal today is to figure out who the biggest frauds are. In order to do that, I narrowed it down to the 11 claimed national titles from SEC programs that the NCAA doesn’t recognize. If the NCAA acknowledges a title, it adds legitimacy to it.
Why was/is this a debate?
Well, I sort of answered that already. Whoops.
I used the official NCAA website to determine what’s acknowledged as a national championship. Here’s a breakdown of the 11 instances in which the NCAA refused to acknowledge a claimed national championship with their records and the record of the officially recognized NCAA champion that year:
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As you can tell just from looking at that, some teams have more compelling cases than others. For example, going undefeated like Alabama did in 1934 and not getting recognized as a national champ by the NCAA seems, well, justified. The same could be said for Tennessee in 1938 or Ole Miss in 1962.
Those aren’t really the cases that we’ll dig into as much today. Why? I’m not about to tell an undefeated SEC team that didn’t get recognized as an NCAA national champion that they’re wrong for feeling shorted. Shoot, I even get why fans of 2017 UCF or 2004 Utah would feel frustrated that they didn’t get recognized by the NCAA after their undefeated seasons, and that was after we had a much better system in place to crown a national champion.
That’s really at the root of why this is such a debate. At different times, the NCAA acknowledged the following polls to determine a national champ:
- Associated Press (AP)
- Bowl Championship Series (BCS)
- Football Writers Association of America (FWAA)
- United Press International (UPI)
- National Football Foundation (NFF)
- USA Today/ESPN
- USA Today/CNN
- College Football Researchers Association (CFRA)
- Helms Athletic Foundation (HAF)
- National Championship Foundation (NCF)
Um, no wonder there’s always so much debate. One team earns a No. 1 ranking from a poll and it’s considered a claim. And those are just the polls acknowledged from the NCAA. In total, 21 organizations claimed a college football national champion.
Remember when UCF had its undefeated season in 2017? It claimed a national title because it finished No. 1 in the Colley Matrix (CM). Check that. It’s referred to as “Colley’s Bias Free Matrix Rankings.” It claims that because, as it lays out on its website that looks like it’s from 1998, it only uses wins and losses (no margin of victory) and it “adjusts effectively for strength of schedule, in a way that is free of bias toward conference, tradition, or region.”
Remember when Alabama lost to Clemson in the College Football Playoff National Champion at the end of the 2016 season? CM gave Alabama the national title. Remember when Alabama beat Notre Dame 42-14 to win the 2012 BCS National Championship? CM gave Notre Dame the national title. So apparently CM is also free at acknowledging actual football games.
The point is, it doesn’t take much for some teams to claim a national title. It wasn’t until 1936 that we had the Associated Press recognized as a widely-recognized poll, and we still had all of these retroactive computer models crowning champions.
A mess, it is.
What people said at the time
That brings us to Jeff Sagarin, AKA the MIT graduate who took rankings to a different, more analytical level. His unique rankings system was used in the BCS formula from 1998-2014. His proprietary formula uses only wins and losses and ignores margin of victory. It factors where a game is played and the quality of opponent.
It also fueled cases like 1959 Ole Miss.
In 2013, then-Rebels coach Hugh Freeze tweeted a picture of Ole Miss’ 3 claimed national titles:
There is no place like Ole Miss. #HottyToddy #DoSomethingSpecial #WinTheDay pic.twitter.com/55WteNAkiW
— Hugh Freeze (@CoachHughFreeze) May 20, 2013
The problem? The NCAA only acknowledged 1960 as a national championship season for Ole Miss. The reaction was, “um, Syracuse went undefeated and won the national title in 1959.” Shoot, they even made a movie about it called “The Express” to chronicle the racial hurdles of Syracuse running back Ernie Davis. The AP and UPI were the widely accepted polls, though the NCAA acknowledged Syracuse getting the title from the FWAA and NFF, as well.
(Read the responses to Freeze’s tweet. They’re worth your time.)
So why did Ole Miss suddenly claim a national title from 1959 half a century later? Because polls from Berryman, Billingsley, Dunkel all gave Ole Miss the nod after a season in which it suffered a loss to LSU, but it avenged it and outscored teams 350-21. More important, Sagarin retroactively declared Ole Miss the national champs and named them the 3rd-best team from 1956-95. If you go to Ole Miss’ official website, you’ll find those exact points made.
These days, that’s how you’ll find out about claimed national titles. It’s usually in some sort of “pat-on-the-back” way. It’s not like the school sends out a release and says, “We decided that we won a national title in 1959. Good day.”
Nope. They try to slip it under the radar in a self-complimentary way and usually end up getting ripped for it.
There was also the time when A&M joined the SEC and suddenly claimed 2 national championships. How did we find out? A fan sent a picture to Deadspin of some additions to A&M’s “Wall of Champions,” which was part of a renovation to Kyle Field. Mockery ensued because who decided that nearly a century after a season ends that a national title is worth claiming?
The Billingsley Report, which was released in 1996 and also used in the ever-complex BCS formula, retroactively named the 1919 A&M squad national champs. And in 1980, the NCF retroactively declared national champs for every year dating to 1869 when college football began. For the 1919 season, the NCF decided that A&M earned a 3-way tie with Harvard and Illinois (that A&M team was actually acknowledged by the NCAA after going 10-0 and not allowing a point the entire season).
As for 1927, the NCAA gave that title to Yale and Illinois based on the HAF, NCF and CFRA polls. Then why did A&M quietly wait until 2012 to claim it? Sagarin. The Sagarin Rankings retroactively gave A&M that title after it went 8-0-1 with a 0-0 tie to TCU. The NCAA’s recognized 1927 national champs, Illinois and Yale, went 7-0-1 and 7-1, respectively, but they dominated the polls.
If a team claimed a national title during the 2010s, chances are, it was from 50-plus years ago … and it was met with much public criticism. It’s a bit slimy to casual add that in there during a stadium renovation like A&M did, and it doesn’t come off well when Freeze brags about “Ole Miss” standard with an additional 2 national title trophies that haven’t been addressed.
Well, at least it’s not as bad as getting your new coach a future national championship plaque:
Texas A&M awards themselves a hypothetical future National Championship – upon completion it will be displayed in Atlantis in a flying car pic.twitter.com/LbYrNVCVqz
— RedditCFB (@RedditCFB) February 28, 2018
The worst take you can have about this debate
I’m sure there’s a bad take about some team that went 5-2 who lost to a pilot school, yet they claimed a national championship 60 years later. But for my money, this is the worst take.
“Everybody claims national titles, so who really cares?”
First of all, not everyone claims national titles because people do actually care. The public heat isn’t worth it.
Take 2004 Auburn, for example. That team went undefeated and didn’t even get to play in the BCS National Championship. Tigers fans felt and still feel robbed. They should. We had a system that failed to acknowledge how we’d get a true championship game in the event that 3 Power 5 teams went undefeated. That’s what happened. Even more interesting was the fact that the eventual winner, USC, was forced to vacate that national title by the NCAA after Reggie Bush’s impermissible benefits.
In other words, there’s a national title just waiting for Auburn to claim it. But what would the reaction be? Alabama fans would have an absolute field day. Fans of LSU, which has won multiple national titles since that 2004 season, would also laugh at Auburn’s expense. No matter how much it would be spun by Auburn as “a chance to properly honor the undefeated team,” it would look like they just did it to keep up with their rivals.
Again, people do care. If they didn’t and it was just a free-for-all without any sort of public perception-related consequences, “unclaimed national titles” wouldn’t be a thing. But they are. Alabama has 5 unclaimed national titles, including that bizarre 2016 title from CM.
Can you imagine if Alabama claimed that 2016 title? All of that frustration directed at UCF fans would look completely hypocritical.
That’s why, despite the madness that ensued for much of the 20th century, we can’t just go around claiming every national title. In many cases, they’re not worth the trouble. There’s no good way to announce a title is suddenly claimed decades later, and it’s a punchline waiting to happen.
Thing I didn’t know/forgot until revisiting this debate
This feeds into exactly what I was just saying. When the initial subject was brought up, my first thought went to A&M. I remembered them getting called out in 2012 for suddenly claiming those pre-World War II titles. Recency bias told me that the Aggies would have the most egregious national titles.
I remember thinking it was a ridiculous move, but I didn’t realize that the 1919 team didn’t allow a point all year while Illinois went 6-1 and Harvard went 9-0-1. Oh, and the NCAA acknowledges that title for A&M now.
In fact, A&M’s only claimed national title that the NCAA doesn’t recognize was in 1927. And as I already outlined, Illinois and Yale weren’t undefeated, either. Spoiler alert — A&M doesn’t have one of the SEC’s 3 most egregious claimed national titles.
I really wasn’t sure what the breakdown would look like. In case you don’t feel like scrolling up, here’s how many claimed national titles by SEC programs are not recognized by the NCAA:
- Tennessee: 4
- Alabama: 2
- Ole Miss: 2
- Georgia: 1
- Kentucky: 1
- Texas A&M: 1
Speaking of Tennessee …
Where do I stand on the debate?
Before we start, I’m eliminating the undefeated teams as candidates for “most egregious claimed national title.” They never lost. The system stunk, and while they might have been ridiculed for it (1919 Texas A&M), they could make a clear case that you were robbed.
While I’m at it, let’s eliminate cases where the recognized national champ had as many losses as the SEC team that tried to claim that title. That gets rid of 1942 Georgia, 1950 Kentucky, 1950 Tennessee.
Through all of this research, I found the 3 most egregious claimed national titles from SEC teams.
It’s 1940 Tennessee, 1941 Alabama and 1967 Tennessee.
Why didn’t I have 1959 Ole Miss? The Rebels essentially did what 2011 Alabama did. That is, destroy everyone, lose 1 nail-biter game to LSU and then avenge that loss to the Tigers in a bowl game in New Orleans. Egregious? Sure, but it wasn’t as bad as Ole Miss’ 1959 claim.
Let’s start with the 2 Tennessee teams.
The 1940 Vols claimed a national championship … after losing its bowl game to Boston College. What? Granted, Minnesota didn’t play in a bowl game, but it still went undefeated and beat a trio of top 15 teams. From 1936-49, the NCAA only recognizes the AP winner, Minnesota, as its national champion. With all due respect to war hero Robert Neyland, the Gophers beat 3 top 15 teams while Tennessee lost to the only one it faced.
Here’s the crazy thing — that Boston College team went 11-0 with the Tennessee victory and claimed that 1940 title … but the NCAA didn’t recognize it because the AP was the only poll accepted for that era.
Wild.
The more egregious Tennessee claimed title was actually 1967. Yes, the 2-loss team that lost its first and last game of the season determined it was worthy of that title. Meanwhile, a USC team that beat 4 opponents ranked in the top 5 had just 1 loss — a 3-0 defeat against Oregon State. A young man by the name of O.J. Simpson turned a few heads that year.
The Vols celebrated the Litkenhous national championship. That’s right. The Litkenhouse national championship. Because if that doesn’t roll off the tongue, I don’t know what does.
Doug Dickey said of the 1967 in a 50th anniversary story that “when you beat Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Ole Miss, you’ve done pretty well.” He’s not wrong. A 9-2 season is a sign that you played “pretty well.” But elite? All-time great. Outside of Litkenhous, probably not.
It’s tied with 1941 Alabama for the single most egregious national title claimed. That season, Alabama got shut out by Mississippi State and Vanderbilt in a 9-2 season. Picture a 2020 universe in which that happens. Does Nick Saban get fired?
That year, Minnesota earned the AP national title, and was ranked No. 1 in 12 polls. But because it went 8-0 without having played in a bowl game (and teams ranked 1-5 didn’t play in bowl games), that paved the way for yet another random formula to declare Alabama the best team in America that year. Never mind the fact that Alabama was ranked No. 20 going into the postseason before a Cotton Bowl win against No. 9 Texas A&M.
So why did Alabama claim that? The Crimson Tide somehow earned a No. 1 ranking by the Houlgate System, which was a mathematical ratings formula used from 1927-58.
Former Alabama sports information director Wayne Atcheson added a whopping 5 national titles to Alabama’s media guides during the 1980s. All of those were before Paul “Bear Bryant” arrived. Atcheson bumped Alabama’s national title total from 6 to 11. He explained why in a 2010 AL.com story:
“I tried to make Alabama football look the best it could look and just make it as great as it could possibly be,” Atcheson said. “I was a competitor myself with the other schools, and what they bragged about and boasted about, I wanted people to know the best about my school.”
Of course.
It gets worse. According to Atcheson, the 1941 title is legit. A CBS Sports story said that “(Atcheson) argued the Mississippi State loss came in the rain, the Vanderbilt defeat was close and that Alabama was the best team in the country at the end of that season.”
Yikes. That’s why people hate claimed national titles, egregious or not.
I’d argue 2012 Texas A&M has a far better claim for a national title than 1941 Alabama. Thankfully, though, A&M didn’t try claim that title.
At least not yet.
cool i guess but nobody considers the colley matrix legit and elite except for a few thousand fans at a university in Orlando…
that alabama one sounds pretty bad. wonder what nick saban would say about it…
Leave it to Tennessee to continue grasping at the past for relevancy.
That’s funny….looking “back” we won a Natty in 1998, georgia’s last one was 1980…..hmmmmmm
Wait is this true??? Why is this the first time I’m hearing this?
Originality is not exactly this site’s strong suit.
He’s just responding with facts to the previous post. Nothing wrong with that…
Was that 98 Natty worth the next 20 years of total irrelevancy?
Hey knucklehead Kirby I don’t think we claimed any titles since 1998. Think your preseason national champs will finally live up this year?
Not sure it even matters how or why a team claimed a title 100 years ago but ok take the 4 away that the NCAA doesn’t recognize. That still leaves 7 they do recognize if 11-4 still equals 7. I can live with that.
Well, how about this: Three SEC teams have been to the Rose Bowl, all more than once. Alabama, Tennessee and Georgia. Georgia is the only undefeated SEC team to have gone and Tennessee is the only SEC team to have gone and never scored a point.
*Undefeated in the Rose Bowl.
Comical. You think a Rose Bowl victory makes up for a NC? It’s just another bowl game unless it involves the championship.
Uh the Rose Bowl is not a tie in to the SEC. It’s just a bowl game.
LSUSMC is right
Honestly who cares about the Rose Bowl?
so what does that mean to you ugarmy? Here is another fun fact for ya – UGA has more egregiously claimed pre-season titles than the rest of the sec combined.
Army’s comment aside, The Rose Bowl is certainly not just another Bowl game.
That was a terrible comment ugarmy. The fact that you think that is a big deal really shows your age. I gotta agree with the others, the rose bowl is not a big to the SEC. The only reason it was in 2017 was because it was a semifinal featuring UGA.
LMAO.. The things some people beat their chest about…
I had to go look since you brought it up… UGA has only played in the Rose bowl twice … LMAO
Sugar Bowl>Rose Bowl. National Title win>Semi-final win
Haha! Let’s leave the discussion for schools that actually have football teams there Sparky!
Another fun fact, Texas A&M also went unbeaten and did not allow a score in 1917 also under head coach Dana X Bible. He went on to win 14 conference championships (some at Nebraska and that other school in Austin).
I came away from this with a much great appreciation for Minnesota and how they should be held in much higher regard as it pertains to college football history and tradition.
It’s more about what have you done lately. I don’t care what a team did 40 or 50 years ago. How does that help the team today? Most elite recruits don’t care about history and tradition either. They care about if the school can get them to the league.
Hey now, we are CHAMPIONS OF LIFE. No one else got any of those huh? haha
Nice informative article. You should do one on the Times SEC teams got shafted. The 1966 season is one for Bama…
Shafted? 1994 for TAMU
Yeah, but we were shafted by our own alumni and former players. We weren’t on TV that year. Probably a good thing, since SMU somehow ties us in San Antonio that year.
2018 for UGA… I’m kidding.
Who’s kidding…
If we counted the years Bama was robbed and gave 1941 back (admittedly weak), our number would go up significantly. Notre Dame’s might be cut in half.
Don’t worry about it, you’re still the only team to lose big in your bowl game and still claim the ‘64 natty…it’s all good
Wait you mean the years they declared the NC before the bowls? Bama isn’t the only team to lose a bowl after being named NC. Some teams didn’t even play in the bowl afterwards…
Is this a Georgia fan here to talk about losing big games? Hold on, let me get my notes.
Note to self…
Dear Self, ClemGooberU has two, TrunksnorterU has two although one is technically shared with OnyxTemplarU, BogKatU has one, BuckNutU has one…no one else has any. By the power vested in me by me I hereby decree all other Natties null and void.
Heck, while I’m at it as the only winner of the CFP I hereby strip TrunksnorterU of their 2017 trophy due to failing to win their conference, lol.
Get you some of that Interstate4Trunksnorter
Give me a quick timeout. My backup quarterback is looking for his helmet.
Lol…well played, touche!
Ha. Go Dawgs. As long as they are not playing Bama.
Roll…er, Roll…uhhh…roll dawgs roll, sorry, that’s the best I can do!
There were many years early in the 20th century that the media would not consider Southern teams for their polls or championship.
SDS I asked for a Joe Burrow vs Cam Newton who had the better season as the next Debate Down South. But you give us this? Please, the Cam vs Joe
I don’t know if that’s much of a debate. Its easily Joe Burrow.
Why?
I mean they both have a Heisman, SEC Champ, SEC player of the year, Heisman, other awards, etc. but Burrow broke records for pass yards, TDs, and completion percentage. Other players have put up similar numbers to Cam before but noone, literally noone has put up the same kind of numbers Burrow did.
Literally no starting offensive players on that Auburn team played an NFL snap. This LSU team will have 9+. Cam carried that team. Burrow had weapons all around.
That is what happens when Auburn blows all of its cash on one player.
Nice argument..
That’s a fair argument. Cam had to carry that team but so did Burrow. Doesn’t matter the talent around him, Burrow was the reason that team was so good just as Cam was for Auburn. There have been teams with incredible talent over the years and still no QB has ever put up the numbers and had the season Burrow had in 2019. Tim Tebow, Hurts, Manziel, and Murray all had similar if not better stats than Cam did when you look at the dual threat angle. Burrow’s season stands alone.
It’s an argument at all lol. It’s an accusation that has been proven false. You’re out of your mind if you think burrow carried that team.. He had loads of talent whereas Newton didn’t. Burrow was there the year before and LSU didnt win it all. How come?
Tebow stats in his best year – 4181 total yards, 55 total tds
Hurts stats in his best year – 3734 total yards, 36 total tds
Manziel stats in his best year – 5524 total yards, 47 total tds
Murray stats in his best year – 5362 total yards, 52 total tds
Cam stats in his best year – 4327 total yards, 51 total tds.
All the players above except cam had nil type players on their roster. Cam had none. It helps when you have talent around you or play in the big 12.
I’m going with Cam.
Most people seem to forget that before and after Cam’s lone season at Auburn, that team was 8-4. And two years after Cam left, Auburn went 3-9. 2 years before Cam got there, Auburn was … 5-7.
It wasn’t like Auburn was swimming in talent back then. Without Cam Newton in 2010, Auburn likely was just another 8-4 team or maybe even worse.
The question now is how good was LSU without Joe Burrow? The two previous seasons to this one, LSU went 9-4 and 10-3.
I think LSU still would be successful in 2019-2020 regardless of who they had at QB. That’s not a knock on Burrow at all, it just speaks to the talent LSU had all over the field.
For the 2010 Auburn team, the best players were Cam Newton and Nick Fairley. After that, it was a steep dropoff in talent.
What Cam did was purely amazing. He took a mediocre team and won every game to include the national championship. I think it’s Cam Newton as the player who had the best season. He did more with less. Again, not a knock on Joe Burrow, but it’s easy to look good with LSU’s receivers, or their offensive line, or a stout defense that will force a 3-and-out.
See my reply above. Doesnt matter the talent around him. Cam made Auburn great, just as Burrow did for LSU. If Burrow doesnt play, LSU is probably a 9-3 team, 10-2 at best. You cant knock a player because of the talent around him. He threw for over 6,000 yards and 60 TDs!!!!!! It doesnt matter the talent around him, thats incredible. Cam might have had more value to Auburn than Burrow did to LSU, but to say Cam had a better season is just inaccurate. Again, Burrow threw for 6,000 yards and 60 TDs!
I’m sorry, but outside of Auburn fans you wont find many people saying Cam had the better season than Burrow did.
Ummm Cam had something Burrow didn’t. Insane dual-threat ability. And Joe hadd something Cam didn’t. Flashy receivers. Think of what Cam could’ve done if he had some great receivers.
17Tide, that may be true, but Burrow was more recent. Which gives Burrow an advantage in the argument.
The much better debate is with Tebow in 2007.
Maybe a 3 way debate. Didn’t think about Tebow.
Alabama leads the nation in claiming national titles.
Yes indeed
Hey only one team claims a Nc the year they were banned from the postseason for cheating…. Its not Bama…
What’s your point? It’s still a championship.
The point is Auburn fans give Bama $hit for claiming Nc in years the Nc was awarded prior to the bowls yet Auburn claims one when they were serving a bowl ban….
First off, look, the NCAA was a bunch of random folks who didn’t care about anything back then. We didn’t deserve the punishment. At least not that punishment. And nobody stopped us for claiming the championship so yeah…
That want the point c21… If Auburn’s spit title in a year they couldn’t play a bowl is legit then Bama’s split titles would be just as legit…
Wasn’t the point*
C21, you can’t defend that. One of Auburn fans’ biggest rip on Alabama is their unclaimed titles and to claim a title you didn’t play for will make you a hypocrite since yall like bashing Alabama for the exact same thing, regardless of your reason behind it.
Auburn fans make fun of bama fans for claiming national championships when they didn’t deserve them.. 1941.
My point exactly… Auburn claimed a Nc while serving a postseason Ban for cheating…
Big difference in claiming one that only one system voted for versus claiming one that the AP recognizes along with several others..
If 1941 was the only one Auburn fans complained about sure, that’s not the case though. The ones that happened prior to the bowls is always a hot topic.
As they should be.. 1930, 1934, 1964 or 65 (can’t have it both ways) and 1973 are all up for debate.
So winning a NC based on the rules of the Era is up to debate?Numerous teams won NCs under those rules…
There has been only one that won a NC win banned from postseason.
And the only reason that was possible for Auburn was because bowls didn’t matter at the time… You don’t see the hypocrisy with your statement?
Numerous teams “won” them but only bama claims them all. If you didn’t get the majority, how can you be the national champion?
There’s no hypocrisy. Auburn had the majority of the votes and the AP vote.
Well if that’s the case it’s the same thing for Bama being awarded them Before the bowls by the AP or UPI… There was only certain recognized voters.
Exactly.. so that’s why 1930, 1934, 1941, 1964, 1965 and 1963 are all up for debate.
So 1957 is up for debate then since Auburn got the AP and OSU got the UPI…
But it’s not because auburn had the majority of votes plus the AP..
It’s split with OSU… If you go look at the NCAA website they split the AP and UPI… You’re trying hard but it’s the exact same thing as 65/65 for Bama who split…
64*
Some polls determined before bowl games and some did it after. If you claim 64 you can’t claim 65. If you claim 65 you can’t claim 64. What about the rest?
Both the AP and UPI were recognized by the NCAA. They changed their selection process starting in 65 so what does that have to do with anything? When CFB went from the BCS to the CFP did the teams that won the title during the BCS suddenly lose those NCs? Did the last BCS NC not actually win a NC because the rules changed the next year?
Come on man you’re reaching…
Come on man.. you’re not following. They changed it for 1 year only? Be real. Why did they change it to suit bama and then change it back the following year to suit them again? That’s not reaching at all.
Also what about the others I mentioned?
They didn’t change it for just one year.. They did t actually fully install the selection after the bowls till 68 and the UPI didn’t do it till 73….
The others are split titles as well outside of 41 if I remeber correctly.. The AP didn’t start till 1936 though so I’m not as familiar with the polls prior to that but the NCAA lists their recognized champs.
And it still doesn’t change my piping… Auburn’s is up for debate just as much as Bama’s if we’re going off split titles…
Point*
The AP selected their national champion before bowl games from 1936-1964 and from 1966-67. Skipped 1965..
They’re all split titles. The point I’m making is Alabama didn’t have majority in their splits, Auburn did and the AP recognized them as the champion. How can you be a national champion and not have majority of votes?
What majority? Having the AP or UPI results in a split title… Adding in some random polls not recognized by the NCAA doesn’t mean anything…
Also I looked and based of the recognized selectors by the NCAA OSU had two polls while Auburn had one in 1957…. So Auburn didn’t meet the criteria you’re trying to lay down..
“Adding in some random polls not recognized by the NCAA doesn’t mean anything…”
So why does Alabama claim 1930, 1934, 1941, 1964, 1965 and 1973?
41 shouldn’t be counted IMO. As for the early 30s I’m not sure of which polls were recognized and don’t care enough to go look… as for 64, 65, and 73 Bama was awarded by either the AP or UPI so why wouldn’t they claim it? Auburn was only awarded the AP and you’re fine with that while OSU was awarded the UPI and FWAA but you want to point fingers at Bama for claiming the same polls?
Not pointing fingers at all. Just saying it was up for debate. If you want to make Auburn’s up for debate go ahead. 73 you lost to ND for the title. Shouldn’t count. The 30’s are all up for debate. 64 and 65 are up for debate because the rules changed, gotta pick one.
Okay that’s fair. But I mean, there are several Bama titles up for debate. There’s only one Auburn title up for debate.
The title of this article includes the word “egregious,” but I don’t think it means what Connor seems to think it means, though he does use the word “fraud” in the article, which gets close.
All of the examples above deal with seasons that had more or less merit in varying degrees. But there is one claimed football national championship that truly meets the meaning of the word egregious: Georgia’s 1942 season.
The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 and America immediately entered World War II. The vast majority of NFL and college football players had entered the military by the time the 1942 season started. 60 U.S. colleges shut down their football programs before the 1942 season. The 1942 Rose Bowl (i.e., after the 1941 season) was played in Durham, North Carolina because of fears the Japanese might invade California.
Yet somehow, Georgia coach Wally Butts managed to keep his roster pretty much intact. He reportedly arranged for his players to join ROTC, which gave them one year as reservists before they would be required to report for military service.
Georgia achieved its largest margin of victory over Florida in the 1942 game, with a 75-0 win… Virtually the entire Florida roster from the previous season and most of the coaching staff had entered military service. The Florida team was largely freshmen. Georgia left its star running backs, Frank Sinkwich and Charley Trippi, in the game well into the fourth quarter.
The AP Poll awarded the 1942 national championship to Ohio State, which was coached by Paul Brown.
Georgia… Georgia on my mind.
LOL. Sic Em.
NashvilleGator knows history. And college football history is part of what makes it so awesome.
Darn, sounds like we pulled a real Operation Barbarossa on the Swamp Lizards. Do I regret it? Nah.
I’m going to have to agree with the Dawgs on this one Nash. Beating the Swamp Lizards by a lot of points in football matters a whole lot more than defending the free world, preventing genocide, and destroying the Axis powers. Sic em!
There’s never a bad time or reason to agree with Dawg fans. Sic Em!
For the next edition of Debates Down South, you guys should definitely discuss whether or not it makes any sense to have a Yankee from IU writing about SEC athletics.
In case you’re wondering… no, it does not.
Facts. And then they complain when we call them out in the comments.
1964 when Bama was awarded the AP NC. this was before the bowl games were played. Bama then lost their bowl game to texas and Ark beat Nebraska in the Cotton Bowl to finish 11-0 and won the Football Writers Association of America (FWAA) #1.
After that year the NC was awarded after the bowl games.
And Bama won it again in 1965… Change the rules and they still won it…
Someone should write an article about ripped off SEC teams with retro computer calculation on SOS etc. The ’84 Gators were stacked and probably would have smacked BYU on the field.
Well yeah… They got hit with a postseason ban for cheating.
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
Not sure what that has to do with the post made by the OP… The 84 gators got sanctioned for cheating. That’s not a shot at them it’s a fact…
Regional bias must be entertained when discussing “opinions” polls done by writers and coaches.
Man is a failed creature. Motivations can and are often flawed. Personal achievement at the risk of fairness, is often victorious.
Which gets me to my bias point. Most of the major journalism schools were located in the Midwest and including the D.C. and New York areas.
The major newspapers located in the Metropolitan areas were leaders of commerce, poltics and culture. Which surely had an impact on all things related to opinions. Or dare say polls.
Bias is a natural process of being human. Polls too.
Kettle signing off.
My personal thoughts on it are either don’t allow anyone to count NC’s from before the BCS or let everyone count every N.C. they were given by a poll. My reasoning for that is that it was such a bad system. Choosing a champion that way is silly. Some are claimed that are embarrassing like the 1940 and 1967 natty’s UT claims but someone was stupid enough to award them one and there was no championship game so no one who “won” one has any real leg to stand on in my opinion. That includes all of UT’s mind you except their BCS one. The reason I would include the BCS ones is because at least they had a championship game that was played. Being voted best is not the same playing another elite program in a N.C. game. The system we have is the best it’s been but even it should be expanded out. I also think that they should have kept the BCS and used it to decide who goes to the tournament and just work to tweak how effective it was. Remove popularity contests as much as possible. I personally don’t care if someone claims a N.C. because someone voted them as champion since so many teams were voted champion every year and that’s the only way anyone got a natty. It’s all silly and at best all you’ll ever get out of it is who has the best arguments to be natty that year and claiming the AP as the end all be all decider for the NCAA is fairly silly. No one played for one so no one truly won one imho. It is an interesting topic though. I knew UT would be on the list because both those natty’s we claim are silly. As a UT fan I’m not gonna sit here and pretend like I don’t count them though. Whatever you gotta do to eases your almost 15 year old pains is what I do.
Not only did Kentucky have the same record of the recognized National Champion they beat the National Champion in the bowl game. I wonder if coach Bear Bryant gets credit for winning that one.