Did refs save Clemson from possible upset in ACC Championship Game?
With a minute left in the ACC Championship Game and down eight points, North Carolina kicked and retrieved an onside kick. The result would have been North Carolina ball with a minute left, down 45-37. However, the refs called offsides and made UNC kick again.
Clemson recovered the second attempt and went on to win the game.
As the broadcast analyzed the call, it was obvious that the refs blew the call. Have a look at the North Carolina squad at the moment of the kick. Clearly, no one was offsides:
Mike Carey confirms this offsides. #ACCChampionship pic.twitter.com/3f2ng3NQKt
— Chris Juergens (@CJJuergens) December 6, 2015
where's the offsides at??? pic.twitter.com/dMcUm82zM8
— Jimmy Findlen (@Jimmy_findlen17) December 6, 2015
UNC recovers onside kick and gets called for offsides – clearly blown call by officials https://t.co/anI7aDxsyM
— Scott Howell (@howellgrp) December 6, 2015
Fedora on the offsides call on the onside kick: "They missed it. They were wrong."
— Chris Low (@ClowESPN) December 6, 2015
Cleaning up ACC statement, which I hastily transcribed. Misspelled mechanically. Perhaps not worst mistake here: pic.twitter.com/W6OXn61msW
— Andrew Carter (@_andrewcarter) December 6, 2015
Clemson finished the season as ACC Champions with a 13-0 record. They will likely retain the No. 1 ranking in the College Football Playoff seeding.
I didn’t see this game. Are you saying this was reviewed and they confirmed offsides? I’m typically not one to expect perfection from refs but regardless if NC would have won the game or not there should be a significant suspension for the replay official(s).
You’re typically not one to read articles either! Yes, offsides.
Get a life Ol misserable.
But…I’m right. You want people to do the reading and then tell you what it means? If what you have is a life, I’d rather not have one.
No review allowed on this. Just a ridiculous call which should have been overturned by the other sighted officials before it was announced.
Thanks, been a horrible year for refs overall.
Clearly an error. Non reviewable. uNc would have needed a TD and 2-point conversion to tie. Which is possible, of course.
This happened in last year’s (2014) Mizzou vs Tennessee game. Difference there was that the Vols got screwed TWICE.
Those who say North Carolina would have had to score a touchdown and the two point conversion, must not have been watching the game.
NC had come back from being down 42-23, scoring 2 late 4th quarter touchdowns, they would have gotten the ball right at midfield with all their timeouts, and a minute and eight seconds. Oh, and they were playing Clemson. Notwithstanding Dabo’s assertions to the contrary, we might have seen some epic, Bill Buckner type Clemsoning going down if the damned refs hadn’t got in the way. And I wouldn’t have wanted to see the news footage of all the delirious benefactors of their choke.
The ones in Columbus.
The replay confirmed both correct calls on the field in the Missouri v Tennessee game 2014.
Well the commentators, and the rest of the viewing audience–outside of Columbia, Missouri–saw that on BOTH occasions, Tennessee clearly and fairly wound up with the ball.
But congratulations on beating the worst Tennessee team that we’ve fielded in 105 years. We’ll see you in 2120 when this series becomes competitive again.
Actually, the SEC released a statement saying that the first onside attempt in the 2014 Tenn/Mizz game was a clean recovery.
I love it. You bash the other teams but since it’s missouri it was a correct call….GTFO.
were we watching the same game? they HAD to score a TD and a 2 pt conversion. there was 1:04 left in the game. unless you are scoring on your 1st or 2nd play from scrimmage there just wouldn’t be enough time left. and to say they’d get ANOTHER onside kick and then kick a FG, if they scored, all in less than a minute is insane.
What planet are you from? They would have had the ball at MIDFIELD with over a minute and ALL THEIR TIMEOUTS. Since the clock stops with a first down in college football, they could conceivably gotten off at least 6-8 plays. (Even more if one of the other officials was from Chapel Hill.)
Bottom line, UNC got hosed and Clemson escaped. I’ll be glad to see the “Tigers” draw Oklahoma or Alabama in the first round and get exposed.
You realize they had three timeouts, right? Are you aware how those work? You’re allowed to use them to stop the clock.
PLEASE TELL ME YOU CAN’T BE THAT STUPID. BUT IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE. THEY WERE MOVING THE BALL LIKE CRAZY IN THE 4TH ON CLEMSON. 1:08 WITH 3 TIMEOUTS LEFT BALL ON THE 50. THAT COULD BE ETERNITY IN A BALL GAME. TOUCHDOWN AND 2 POINT CONVERSION GAME GOES TO OT. I JUST SAW STANFORD WIN A GAME WITH LESS TIME AND ALOT FURTHER TO GO IN LESS THAN A MIN LAST WEEK AGAINST ND. BAD CALL PERIOD AND CLEMSON I KNOW IS VERY GLAD IT WAS A BAD CALL CAUSE CHANCES ARE PRETTY GOOD THEY GET BEAT.
Hey Mike…
The NCAA rulebook Rule 6, article 2, section c, part 5 states: “All players of Team A must have been between the nine-yard marks after the ready-for-play signal [S19]”. The penalty for this is “Live-ball foul. Five yards from the previous spot, or five yards from the spot where the subsequent dead ball belongs to Team B, or from the spot where the ball is placed after a touchback [S18 or S19] (A.R. 6-1-2-VI).” Or in other words the same exact outcome as an offside penalty.
The penalty was not for the number of players on either side of the kicker or for a player running past the line before the ball was kicked. It was for the obvious player that can be seen on the outside of the 9 yard mark before the ball was kicked and after the Ready-for-play signal was given. Bottom line = PENALTY.
Now if you are a man that loves football, you will admit when you are wrong.
Billwill, the call was offsides, not illegal substitution. They are two entirely different things.
Who said anything about Illegal substitution?? This is actually a False Start/Encroachment call according to the rulebook and not offsides. So if everyone is says this should have been a reviewable call, then fine. Review it. But the outcome would not have changed b/c there was a missed targeting call they would have seen and they would have changed the offside to the proper call. Regardless, calls like this will not be reviewable in the near future b/c the NCAA and the NFL know that as soon as they start reviewing the accuracy of penalties, it won’t be long until Ref’s won’t be needed at all. And with the record of the replay booth this year, God knows I don’t want them responsible for calling games.
Like hell it did Volman TRY AGAIN!!! The calls in the Missouri game we’re in fact handled correctly. In this game that is not the case at all. You strike me as a Republican in trying to sneak that crap past us. LMAO
oh so, dems don’t slip it to us huh? “we gotta pass it to see what’s in it”…. okie doke
You might need to check the comments above, since it was stated that UT cleanly recovered the first Onside kick as per the SEC
Thank you BillWill!
Of course they missed the call,wouldn’t have expected any less,gotta make sure Clemmy gets in the playoffs, way to go Dabo,cry cry cry. Make sure you bring these refs with you,or you might get accused of Clemsoning!
Hopefully they’re getting exactly what they deserve. A well- deserved spanking a team who skates through seasons get in the spotlight . I’m hoping they get paired with a true contender. It’s kind of like cheating on a college entrance exam. What are they gonna do when they get to class?
Skating thru the season? Let’s see. If I am correct, Clemson beat 3 top 10 teams this year. No other team in the country did that. You and I have very different definitions of “skating” thru a season.
Will Muschamp. Lol
The call was correct. All of the players have to be inside of the outside hash mark at the bottom of the screen. Closest player from the bottom isn’t inside the hash mark.
Let me guess; Closet Clemson fan?
What a stupid statement. The ACC has already said “there appears to have been an error in judgment on the play.”
But we’ll take you’re word.
An auburn fan acting like he knows more than everyone else? You don’t say…
It has nothing to do with him being an Auburn fan, and everything to do with him being an idiot.
Look up the rules you lazy bum
Shouldn’t you be looking for your “teef” or something?
Do you know how they line up on a regular kickoff? They sure as hell aint bunched up outside the hash marks.
Considering the rule says:
“All players of team a must have been between the nine-yard marks after the ready-for-play signal [S19].”
where team a is the kicking team, I would say the play was illegal.
I would think they would have called illegal formation rather than offsides, however, and they should have explained it at the time.
All those that disagree with wiz, suck eggs.
At least two Auburn fans know that rule.
First of all, hash marks and 9-yard marks are very different things. Second, that would mean the call was still wrong even as you describe it. Third, players must all MOMENTARILY be between the 9-yard marks between the ‘ready for play’ and the kick. At no point could an illegal procedure have been called. If you will look at the top of the screen you will notice that player is also outside the mark, as the clip starts well after the ‘ready for play’. Neither could it have been a penalty for illegal wedge, as it is an apparent onside kick formation. BAD CALL, suck your own eggs. Seriously, put out the roach
WTF are you talking about? And in what universe do hash marks have any bearing on that call? Little too much ganga? Good stuff, huh?
The official signaled and said the penalty was off sides. Not being inside the numbers after the ready for play signal is a substitution infraction. It is a completely different rule and signal
We can worry about the ACC when we quit giving blocking advantages and to our favorites. Not to mention failure by league to forfeit games won with PED advantages. There is a reason Will Muschamp mentioned cleaning up Florida publicly on his way out. Who in their right mind trusts Florida State to monitor their own program now? Mami requires something like solitary confinement of their entire roster and staff.
You sound like such a cry baby. Nobody us getting advantages. There is bad calls in every game played and it’s hard to stop it when the players are going full speed. You can’t see everything. The difference now is you get to see the replay on TV…..I promise you missouri has benefited from a bad call but I don’t call it a conspiracy because that’s stupid…..As far as PEDS the player got suspended a year per the rules….
But don’t be surprised if after some NCAA investigation, Florida has to vacate wins with Grier under center because he was using then.
Dude, your crappy Oline got away with more holding in ‘blinding’ rain than I have seen in years. Our DL jersey’s were almost pulled below their pads at times. Of course, the Ole Miss game had the same thing.
The call was for players being lined up outside the 9 yard Mark.. Rule- 6-1-2-C-5
They called offsides, not illegal substitution. Besides, this clip doesn’t go back far enough to make that claim, as players don’t have to stay inside the marks. Of course, if the Clemson punter hadn’t had a brainfart, might or might not have been this close anyway.
don’t know if the outcome would have been different but definitely a bad call…
You are looking at the wrong aspect of “Offsides” In this case, it is not a player crossing the plane before the kicker. It is the player at the bottom of the screen that is offsides – he is outside the 9 yard hash mark (he is too close to the bottom sideline). And the refs totally missed the targeting in that play . . . They miss calls and make bad calls all the time – inescapable part of the game.
That’s not offsides, and a player only needs to have MOMENTARILY been between the marks, otherwise it’s illegal substitution. Look at the top, and you will see a mirror of his position.
If they would just give NCAA FB one defensive penalty challenge per half it would change the outcome of a lot of these games. I hate seeing a great game all day, giant battle, only to be won by some crap ref call, it happens far too often these days. Not to mention like 5 times this season alone where bad calls caused a team to lose in the last few seconds.
If you’re going to write an article, get your facts straight and know the current NCAA rules. The NCAA enacted a rule this year that says each player on the kicking team must be working the 9 yard hash marks, if not it results in an offsides call. The UNC player at the bottom, is clearly bellow the hash mark, and you can verify by looking at the has mark right behind him on the 30 yard line. It wasn’t a bad call, but the correct call, and not the officials fault that the announcers, Larry Fedora, and Joe Fan don’t know the rules.
You are misinterpreting the rule and assigning the wrong infraction.
I am so sick of the media trying to mar good quality wins by teams without doing their due diligence of researching situations to make sure the general public is well informed. Isn’t that your job? I thought it was but apparently us lay people are left to setting the media straight b/c they have become to lazy to make sure they report the truth instead of what makes headlines. You are more interested in making excuses and bashing a team even though the RIGHT call was made. And if you are so upset about missing this call (which they did not – see below) why aren’t you in an uproar about the obvious missed targeting call on UNC on this same onside kick?
The NCAA rulebook Rule 6, article 2, section c, part 5 states: “All players of Team A must have been between the nine-yard marks after the ready-for-play signal [S19]”. The penalty for this is “Live-ball foul. Five yards from the previous spot, or five yards from the spot where the subsequent dead ball belongs to Team B, or from the spot where the ball is placed after a touchback [S18 or S19] (A.R. 6-1-2-VI).” Or in other words the same exact outcome as an offside penalty.
The penalty was not for the number of players on either side of the kicker or for a player running past the line before the ball was kicked. It was for the obvious player that can be seen on the outside of the 9 yard mark before the ball was kicked and after the Ready-for-play signal was given. Bottom line = PENALTY.
Illegal formation and offside by rule…agreed. Whomever commented for the ACC in the aftermath that said it was an ‘error in judgment’ also did not understand the rule that was called and was looking for offside based on breaking the plane of the yard marker. Clearly they were too quick to side with Fedora.
‘have been’, and it would have been either illegal procedure or illegal substitution. Yall have misinterpreted the rule. Players only need be in between marks momentarily. And does nobody else see that the player on the other side of the field mirrors his position?
This is actually a False Start/Encroachment (LIVE BALL FOUL) call according to the rulebook and not offsides or illegal substitution. Either way the penalty assessed would not have changed. Only what the penalty was called. Reviewing the game footage, the player at the bottom of the screen was lined up on the outside of the 9 yard mark as the Ready-for-Play signal was given. If he moves after the signal he is ok but he was never inside the yard mark. Again… Bottom Line is Penalty.
Even if what you say is true, that would still be a bad call. Wrong call is a bad call. But even the ACC disagrees with your interpretation of the video: “Offsides is not a reviewable play,” the ACC said in a statement. “The officiating team saw a member of the kicking team break the plane (of the 35-yard line) before the ball was kicked.” Of course, they also said that it was a judgement call. You’re offside or you are not, no ‘judgement’ necessary. I think it is fair to say that about 99 percent of the CFB world disagrees with the call. When multiple analysts (not that they are EVER wrong) on different outlets openly question whether the ACC might have left little to chance in making the CFP and a potential national title, I would say that maybe there is something to this “blown call” assessment. Besides, offsides/encroachment/and false start in now way apply to the nine yard marks, they are there solely for substitution calls. False start is by definition a DEAD BALL FOUL, and results in an immediate whistle. I’m not sure, but encroachment usually involves contact and a clear line to the quarterback, a nonexistent position on kickoffs. There is a reason why we hear ‘offsides’ more than encroachment (NFL uses the ‘lining up in the neutral zone’ as well). The last time, and it has been a while, I saw encroachment by the defense, the play was whistled dead instead of the usual free play the offense gets with an offsides call. I don’t even think ‘encroachment’ is possible at the college level on kickoff, though it might be applicable in highschool for some states.
I think you are missing my point. I agree a wrong call is a bad call and there was no “offsides” on this play as it is very obvious from the replay a player did not cross the line before the ball was kicked; however, there was still a penalty. I don’t think the ACC is going to make a statement that two other penalties were missed during the play that would have resulted in either a re-kick. Even if the call was reviewable, which I don’t think it should be for various reasons, they would have been forced to retract the first call and asses the penalty/penalties that were missed. And as for encroachment/false start vs. offsides, all I can say is the NCAA rulebook lists that penalty under kick formation for the kicking team and specifically mentions the 9 yard marks with the penalty to be assessed as a Live Ball Foul of False Start/Encroachment. I have never seen it called either but the assessment for that penalty is exactly the same as an offsides penalty…live ball foul. I agree it sounds screwy but hey… don’t shoot the messenger.
I must confess I thought it was a Bad call. I stand corrected. But that will not change mind that as FANS we should shout as loud and as long as necessary. To force the NCAA to change the rules. I spend to much money and to many weekends. To watch a Bad call change the out come of a season. Last year Alabama made a touchdown I think In less than 60 sec. to go ahead of Arkansas 14 -13 . Then the REFs let 60 sec run off the clock and left Arkansas HIGH AND DRY. OH but the next week They did apologize!!!!! Alabama went on to loose in Championship game.? This happens over and over. WE Should DEMAND that anything should be up for challenge…. I do not care how long it takes. I am their to see a TRUE winner. NOT WHAT the REFs leave standing… I will go on to say the review booth should be run by someone from a different League. I see them get it wrong and have to wonder if they have an agenda….
It was a bad call, there is no offsides. And view after view, I can’t actually see any target other folks are talking about.
I do see where targeting could have been called, when a player tries to plant his head on the ball, but the other player bobbled it so it wasn’t even there.
Not sure how you can not see targeting Bulldog. The player launched himself and made forceable contact to the head on a defenseless player.
Watch closely the ref is reaching for his flag as soon as they start. I think he was going to throw it no matter what as a precaution if UNC got the ball. Understand this was a close game and UNC had the mo and possibility to win the game. If they had won the ACC would have lost 50 million dollars. I have no dog in this fight but when one call can change the outcome of the game I wonder.
Just some thoughts:
1) It actually is offsides because at the moment the ref blows the whistle and hands the kicker the ball, there are two players outside of the vertical hash painted on the 30 yard line. This rule sucks in this situation because obviously the flag should’ve been thrown earlier and nobody actually knew this was a rule, but it is in place so that the kicker can’t just put the ball on the tee and quick kick it without giving the receiving team time to line up. It also prevents hidden players along the sideline to jump into the play on kickoffs. While we’re complaining about missed calls…
2) Watch #24 for Clemson as he tries to recover the ball. Notice anything? Oh yeah, a blatant targeting that was missed. Now I’m tired of hearing all about how UNC would’ve won if the refs didn’t “miss” the onside call, but it still would’ve been a rekick if the refs didn’t miss that call as well.
Sure the reason for throwing the flag in the first place kinda sucks, but we need to step up and give Clemson some credit for being the number 1 team all season and not faltering…at least so far. That being said, the ACC refs are still about as good at reffing as Tennessee is at butt chugging.
Go Dores