sonsoftexas

What Always gets lost in the Sumlin collapse narrative is that it always happens when his schedule gets tougher. You can't win when you expect the defense to play 120 snaps a game. They have to fully commit to SEC style play. Stop the hurry up and build an SEC roster not the smaller big 12 style they have now. That has had more to do with the collapses than everything. The schedule gets tougher and his roster is depleted because they are not as big and strong as his SEC counterparts. Clemson proved you can beat Alabama if you go up tempo and make your defense play 100 snaps. They didn't prove you could win the SEC and do it 8 weeks in a row...So far no one has....

And it's funny how many are now jumping ship....Some of us saw this coming and were told to go away....

Neither has earned an extension and he seems to be confusing the potential of the program with the potential of the coach.... Besides ATM has already rewarded Sumlin....That is why they can't fire him...

The problem with all of the talent improvement is that they are barely keeping their head above water in the SEC. To win this league they will have to out recruit LSU and Alabama and not rank with the 7th best class in the conference. Sumlin while recruiting well, isn't recruiting that well...

Positives Recruiting, Bowl Record, and Nonconference record. Negatives Conference record, Home record, player development, Recruiting trending downward every year on signing day (for example starting out at 8 and ending the day at 21) Decision making, suspensions and arrests, discipline, and culture. Lets take them one by one. His recruiting has been well above average. It has been quite good. While he has had his misses, the bigger concern with recruiting is this. If you are a talent disadvantage to Alabama and LSU you need to out-recruit them. Having a top twenty class that is 7th best in the SEC is not catching up it is keeping your head above water. That is just the fact of it. His bowl record has been phenomenal. He has been able to win his bowl games except for last year but that was a unique circumstance with the situation at qb being what it is. He is the only ATM coach I can remember to consistently win his bowl games. One could knock his bowl record when comparing it to Jackie or Slocum being that he hasn't played the quality of teams they did, but Slocum lost his share of Alamo bowls as well. This one is more on the positive side but a big asterisk needs to be added that he only beat one quality opponent in one quality bowl game. Kudo's for not losing the cupcake ones though. His non-conference record 19-1. The one loss was the bowl game to Louisville. He beat 4 ranked teams in that 19 wins. Oklahoma, Duke, Louisiana Tech, and Arizona State. He also beat 5 FCS teams. Lamar, South Carolina State, Sam Houston Twice, and Western Carolina. He was 5-0 in those games. In the remaining games he was 10-1. Those games were against teams a combined 95-94. This is also highly inflating his win totals when you look at his conference record. Overall he is 36-16. 19-1 Non-conference. This is one positive that is highly overrated when you look at the numbers. Conference record he is 17-15. Here is a comparison for you. Sherman after 4 years was 15-18 in conference. Franchionne was 15-17. Slocum was 26-4-1. Jackie was 17-14-1. No matter how you cut it he is closer to Fran and Sherman than he is coaches who won conference titles at ATM. And not to be insulting but he is 3-9 against the top dogs in the SEC West, Alabama, Auburn, and LSU. In the other games which should all be wins if you are winning this league he is 7-5. Not to be a jerk about it but if you want to win the SEC West the Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Arkansas games have to become your Iowa State, Kansas, and Baylor from the old league. No way around it. At home he is 18-9. In conference at home he is 7-9. Against ranked teams at home he is 1-8. This isn't progress.... Player development. They have had massive misses on their recruiting classes and they have had massive holes to fill. For example his Recruiting classes have produced 4, 5, and 2 starters of the 4 and 5 star players in his classes. When you look at those numbers it tells you that the guys that are highly recruited that are ready to play do well here. Developing other players has not happened as much. One comment that was telling in his interview was that guys like Noil and Seals-Jones were quarterbacks in high school and are finally comfortable to play wr. That is pretty telling being that one is a junior and one is a redshirt junior. Not a whole lot of development going on. It has been nonexistent at linebacker. There are real problems at this in the program. And that is before we even get to quarterback. Let me phrase it this way. Everyone makes excuses for Sumlin over Allen and Murray leaving, but let's look at it another way. If you had the chance to work under a bonafide guru, like playing guitar for Eric Clapton, wouldn't you be willing to wait your turn? Why is it that he can't find a quarterback that wants to stay and play for him? The reputation far outpaces the results.... Last years class according to rivals finished 16. It started the day at 12. It dropped 4 points on signing day. The year before it ended up 10 but started signing day at 5. There is a clear trend of going backwards on signing day. I don't know why Sumlin can't do better at the last minute but if he can not get them committed early he can't get them. Something is not right with their recruiting. It is a house of mirrors. Decision making has been atrocious as well. He could have taken over for Spavital when it was apparent that he was in over his head but he didn't. He could have hired a competent offensive coordinator before he hired Spavital but he didn't. He could have replaced Snyder sooner but he didn't. He could have stopped the Manziel circus but he didn't. he could have stopped the Moorehead situation but he didn't until after. He could have kept McKinney and fired Snyder but he ran off the offensive coordinator and kept the under-performing one. All of these things point to a flaw in the though process. He is not really evaluating what is wrong. The moves he has made recently feel more like rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic than they do fixing problems. Except one. You have to give him credit for the decision to hire Chavis. The lack of accountability for him is astounding. Chavis just illustrates the lack of professionalism of Sumlin. For example when Chavis is in front of the camera after a bad performance he says we didn't get it done. Sumlin says the system works the qb's need to play better. One throws his players under the bus and one doesn't. The lack of accountability in the decision making is causing the culture problem. The suspensions are alarming because of the lack of discipline of his players and it is exacerbated by the lack of quality players behind them. No depth equals no development. Something has to give. The culture problem stems from the fact that he doesn't hold himself accountable much less his players. The hype surrounding him is fading and fading fast. The hot seat rumors are coming from people who two years ago thought he was the next coming of a Meyer of Saban. When ESPN is now putting him on the hot seat after the amount of praise they have reaped on him in the past is a very telling thing. Bottom line is this the potential for greatness is there. There are some good players on this team and some quality coordinators. Are they good enough to beat Alabama and Nick Saban it is possible. Are they good enough to beat Alabama, Nick Saban and Kevin Sumlin? Not a chance in hell..... This will get a whole lot worse before it gets better. I understand patience but I also understand trends and they are trending the wrong direction. Performance is what matters and he is under performing. That is not the guy you give patience to...

I understand being patient with a coach. However I don't know if I agree that Sumlin is the guy we should be patient with. For example after Manziel's second season his offensive coordinator was McKinney. The offense was 5th in total offense and 6th in scoring offense and he demoted Mckinney to put Spavital in the driver's seat. On defense that year they were 110th in total defense and 92nd in scoring defense and they kept Snyder. I don't trust the guy who would replace a coordinator of a top ten offense and keep the coordinator of a 110 defense. It is not can he change it is his judgement that I don't trust. Neither should any other Aggie if they are paying attention...

And Saban took over for Perles at Michigan State who was 68-67-4. Over the last 5 years he was 14-37. Sumlin took over for Briles who was 34-28 but had gone 18-8 with two division championships his last two years....Try comparing apples to apples. They aren't even in the same league......That is the kind of cr#$ that drives me crazy. Reading Texag's propaganda and not being smart enough to see the con coming....This program is underachieving, that isn't a problem that gets fixed over time.......

And just in case you think it is a one off class, the next class produced players 7 of 16 started but it is down to 6 after Allen left. The class after that is 4 of 16 so far with two of them gone Murray and Davis...... There is more than enough proof that Sumlin is not maximizing our potential...

Not buying it. The problem is Sumlin.....

The problem I have with articles like this is they are distracting. Chavis is right on one hand there is a lot of potential there. However, there is nothing suggesting we are going to take advantage of it. Sumlin's record in the SEC West LSU 0-4. Alabama 1-3. Auburn 2-2. You aren't winning the West unless you can win two of those three and go undefeated against.... Arkansas 4-0. Mississippi State 1-3. Ole Miss 2-2..... There is nothing in this coach's history to suggest he is the one to take advantage of moving forward. Chavis is right about everything else but he is wrong about Sumlin being the guy to take advantage of all the things he mentions. And one more thing. I don't get how next year will be any better than this year. Hear me out. We have a one year stop gap qb, we will more than likely be starting a fresman next year, and due to players leaving we will be reaplacing Hall, Garrett, Seals Jones, and Reynolds, Possibly Watts, and Noil. Then when you look at the miss rate on highly sought after recruits that either don't pan out, aren't as good as advertised, or not developed by the coaches, you have a much bigger problem for 2017. For example 13 recruiting class per ESPN 17 4 star players, 4 went on to start games. Seals Jones, Mastrogiovanni, Hall, and Sanders. Out of the rest you have had, 3 Receivers transfer, 3 Defensive lineman that have never played, one that was arrested, a linebacker that has never seen the field, and think about how bad they have been at linebacker, a safety and a corner who haven't played yet. A guard who never made it into school. The only defensible loss was a qb that signed but played pro baseball. That means that out of 17 4 star players he landed 4 starters. That is a hit rate of 23.53%. And you could argue that the ones that have started haven't been world beaters since some of them haven't lived up to the hype surrounding them. At a program like Alabama that Saban is running next man up rings true. At ATM due to Sumlin that isn't necessarily true. This program is heading in the wrong direction based on performance. The sky is the limit for the potential of the da%& thing. Now if we would only hire a quality coach to get us over that hump and take advantage of it...

Good Bull!! Here is hoping it works out a second time... If I'm not mistaken didn't his leaving the program have to do with injuries? Is he healthy? Just wondering...

I don't have to justify my degree to anyone...especially someone so orange obsessed that he sees ghosts everywhere....Good luck with that...Doesn't change the fact that Sumlin and his staff screwed this up and made themselves look like the less-on's you are acting like...Good job.

Really is that the best you can do? How pathetic.....But then again head in the sand Ags have always blamed all of their problems on Texas.....Way to prove the stereotype that we are obsessed with them....Good job.

I don't doubt they were after another qb. My point is you had a 5 star guy committed you took advantage of the fact that that created excitement for the program. When that guy rejects you, for whatever reason it creates a perception that you aren't a desired destination. Even if you didn't want him, you didn't yank the offer because that creates a bad perception also. What drives me crazy is the good riddance he's gone attitude that exists anytime anyone leaves this program. No matter how you cut it it stings and is bad for the perception of the program. Sumlin doesn't get a free pass for some of this stuff because I can see right through it. I am all for supporting my team and my school but am d@%n sick and tired of the pissing on my boots and telling me its raining....And even sicker of the it must be raining because they tell me it is crowd...

No just my post.

Seems about right. Sumlin is heading in the wrong direction. His program is going nowhere. He is much closer to last than winning 10 games.... For all those people who don't get it it comes down to this. Sumlin is 3-9 against Alabama, Auburn, and LSU. You aren't winning the west unless you can win two of those and beat everyone else.....Nothing he has shown so far says he can do it.....

Thought it had nothing to do with it? Wow how misinformed the Sumlin defender crowd must be...Couldn't be that they may have been lying to cya could it? I'll save you the trouble call me whatever orange nickname your bankrupt mind can come up with...This is all on Sumlin and his staff. They are in way over their heads and it is becoming more telling the longer he is here. I just hope we don't let him steer his titanic into an iceberg before we send him packing...

Nope wrong again. I am a proud Aggie grad class of 99. I'm just a little smarter than some. I don't believe texags is journalism. I don't believe everything this coach says because it defies reality. I bet you are one of those people saying good riddance to Martell now but was touting how he was the savior until they told you what to think after they blew it.....But then again All you have to say is "sip" "tu troll" and it apparently makes an argument for you. Still doesn't make this staff any more competent but hey if you feel better...

Ahh...There it is the sip argument. The last thought of a bankrupt mind. Context is this. A Wide Receivers coach tweeted about losing a player. No one knows which player but it did cost them 2 wide receivers. Anyone hiding behind context in that is a rainbow pumping less-on. This isn't about getting high off of pessimism. It is about realistic expectations you know the ones rooted in reality.....Funny The coach didn't contribute to losing two players, and Martell wasn't their guy, yet no one pulled the offer, they waited till he jilted them. Then made up an excuse the gullible would buy....And congratulations you proved them right....

How can you tell? Most of his career has been short stints where his recruits ended up playing for the next guy. His longest tenure is 4 years. IN 36 years he has had 14 jobs. Take out the high school and the NFL jobs and it is 12 jobs in 33 years. There isn't enough evidence to know what he prefers since he isn't around long enough to coach his recruits....These kinds of comments are what is holding ATM back. Defending everything no matter what. Get some objectivity or your program will fall even further behind.....

When would you panic? Stop defending every decision that gets made or that goes against them. The ship isn't right and something is very wrong when no matter what the answer is don't question it, all is well. The head in the sand thing isn't working anymore.... This looks bad no matter how you cut it. Don't try and justify it like it isn't connected. It is stuff like this that drives me crazy. This is a major program that is internally very dysfunctional and everyone seems fine with that because of potential. Well guess what potential works both ways. You may have the potential to be 10-2 but you could also potentially go 3-9. Based on past performance I can guarantee that it will be somewhere in the middle. Mediocre. But Don't panic everything is looking up...

I keep cracking up at all of the excuses being made for Sumlin and his staff. It was we can lose Allen and Murray and everything will be fine and Martell will save the day. Then it was he was to short anyway. Wonder if anyone would think that if he had stayed? Sumlin and his staff made this worse no matter how you cut it and it will cost them. He needs to be gone and get a coach that can win in the SEC. His accomplishments are only different than his two predecessors in one way. When he topped out in a cotton bowl he won it. He is nothing special and the direction it is heading just illustrates it.